Transcript of Part Three

Lawrence: I had sold my house. I came to an agreement with my partner to get rid of the business. They told me to go to the Embassy in London, the United States Embassy in London and take my passport and tell them that I wanted to go America for one year to be a missionary. And I said, you know, like, "A missionary? I don't want to be no missionary." (laughs) "I want to be an architect." And they said, "No, that's just how you have to…" you know, "you'll be like a volunteer working for the church." And I said, "Well, then how are you going to pay me as an architect?" And they said, "Well, you know, we'll pay all your living expenses and then just give you pocket money. That's all legal." So, anyway, I went to the London Embassy and stood in line. And the guy said, "Okay. What do you want to do?" And I said, "I want to join the Scientology to be a missionary for a year." And he said, "No way! What do you do?" I said, "I'm an architect." He said, "You're going to America to work as an architect." And I said, "No. No, I'm going to be missionary." He said, "No. Absolutely. There's no way. You're going there to work." And I said, "But, but, but…" and he said, "Next!" (interviewer laughs) And I was just so…but at this point, my wife and kids had…she'd had flown back to England, taken the kids and gone to America. So, now I walk out of the London Embassy and my mind is like, "Oh my God! My whole family is gone to America and I can't even get there! My dreams are shattered!" And, like, so I…so I call up and they say, "Come to Saint Hill to meet with someone from OSA. You know, the Office of Special Affairs and they'll tell…" "Don't worry about this. Don't worry." And so, "They will explain to you how to get through to the people at the Embassy." So, I went down there and I met this lady there and she said, "Get the deeds of your…" My house had been sold but I still had the papers. She said, "Take the deeds of your house. Take your partnership agreement. Take all of this back to the London Embassy and explain to them that you're just going for a year." And, you know, "You're still going to be an English resident. You've still got your house."

Stacy: So, they…they're coaching you on how to lie.

Lawrence How to lie. So I said, "But I'm not going for a year. As I understand it, I'm, like, the new architect for Clearwater. You know, I'm going…for permanently."

Stacy: Do you remember who was coaching you on this at Saint Hill?

Lawrence: No. No. I remember…I had several phone conversations with I think…with a guy called Glen Styloe (sp?) and he was in L.A. but he was like their chief immigration person.

Stacy: And he was coaching you on how to lie to the immigration office?

Lawrence: Yeah. How to lie…how to lie to immigration. To say, "Just go, take the deeds of your house. Take your partnership agreement and tell them you only want to be for a year." So…

Stacy: Even though he knew that you had already sold your house and you had already dissolved your partnership?

Lawrence: Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. So, I was being taught how to lie by OSA. So then I went back to the London Embassy and sure enough, I'm with all these papers to beg with them. And sure enough, I'm in line…Oh, I forgot to say, when I was first refused my Visa for America, I was so upset because my family had gone. I was about to start begging to say, "But my family have already gone! Please! Please!" But I stopped myself. I said, "This…obviously that's not going to help." So I stopped short and I just left. So then anyway, I went back to the American Embassy armed with all these papers. You know, my house deeds, my…and I'm in line to the same guy again. So, I go, "Oh no!" (interviewer laughs) So, at the last minute, I duck out. I let the person behind me go ahead and then I get in another line and I see a girl there at the Embassy and I said, "Well, I just want to go to America for a year to be a missionary as a volunteer." Here's my…I have a house in London." You know, "I have a partnership here. I'm going to come back." And she said, "Okay." So she wrote in my passport, a special stamp…they stamped it with a Visa…the V-1 Visa and they said, "Church of Scientology - one year," and dated it. And I mean, I can't tell you how relieved I was. You know…just…I went outside and practically cried with relief that I could now go back to my family. But already I was beginning to feel the kind of stress of family separation, you know.

Stacy: Well, now you're going to be in America under false pretenses.

Lawrence: Right. So then, I fly to America. I'm on, like, British Airways flying. And I've got all my architectural equipment on the plane in my carry-on bag…scales and compasses and stuff. And I'm sitting on the plane and I'm going, "Wait a minute. I'm a total idiot. They're going to…I'm going to try and get through immigration in Miami," no, in Tampa, " and they're going to open my bags and find all this architectural equipment. I meant to be a missionary! What am I thinking?" So, I, like, stand up in the flight. I open the overhead compartment. I'm fumbling in my bag so I ditch all my pencils, my scale, my architect's equipment-I ditch it all. I wrap it in a blanket and, you know…

Stacy: And leave it on the plane?

Lawrence: Leave it on the plane 'cause it's a lot of equipment. So then I'm…I'm in a state of panic. So then I arrive at Tampa Immigration, you know…and I'm like, "I'm here to be a missionary for one year with the Church of Scientology." So the guy says to me, "Have you got any E-Machines in your baggage?" (laughs)

Stacy: E-Machines?

Lawrence: E-Machines. And I'm going "No!" (interviewer laughs) And then he laughs, you know, "Just kidding." And then, okay, he lets me in. So then like floods of relief. And then I arrive at the building in Clearwater and they say, "Oh…" You know…

Stacy: At the Fort Harrison?

Lawrence: Yeah. At the Fort Harrison. I'm reunited with my wife and kids. It's been like a month, you know. And so it was great. And then they say, "Well, let's take you to where you'll be staying temporarily." And, you know, "Your new apartment's being gotten ready." (laughs) So, we go out to a place just in the middle of nowhere it seems like, on US Highway 19 called the Quality Inn, known as the QI, which is just, like, I can't describe to you arriving there at midnight. This place is so run down and falling apart. It's just an old motel. And we're all in one room and we're all shut in one room. And I'm going, "You can't put five…" you know, "a thirteen year old boy, an eight year old girl and a two year old baby all in one room."

Stacy: With the parents…

Lawrence: Yeah…with us…with the parents, like… And they go, "Oh, we just had little snags with the accommodation." You know, "It's just temporary." And I'm going, "We can't all sleep in one room." You know, "I haven't even seen my wife in months," you know, like what? And they say, "It's just temporary. It's just temporary." But there's no…this is September. There's no air conditioner. It's like you can't even sleep. It is so hot and so humid. I'm just lying there all night sweating. And then…okay, so I go into the Fort Harrison the next day and they, like, give me all of these Media, you know? Like…I mean, I already know…I've worked in London at some tiny, little organization. I know nothing about the Sea Organization. So, they give me all these aptitude tests and IQ tests. And they're, like, they put me on the E-meter and they're saying, you know, "Did someone send you here?" You know, "Are you working for a newspaper?" (interviewer laughs) And I'm going, "Well, you know you invited me to come to be an architect." Like… "You know I'm not sent by a newspaper. What are you talking about?" And they go, "Would you just please answer the questions? Were you sent by a newspaper? Were you sent by the government? Do you work for the CIA?" I mean, I'm going "Come on guys! What are you talking about? You know who I am! It's me! Larry Woodcraft! You interviewed me for an architecture job! Now you think I'm sent by the CIA? Come on!" Anyway, so I just play along with it and get through all that. And they say, you know, "We've decided that we want you to do this job where you go around interviewing PC's. You know, interviewing, like preclears, like Scientology public who have come here from Italy, from Germany," and you know, "they've bought services here…auditing and processing and training. Your job is going to be…you're going to go around and interview them and then," you know, "work out which of, you know, if there are any problems, you need to go and handle it." I'm going, "What are you talking about? You brought me here to be an architect! Where's the new building? Where's my office? Where's my drafting table?" You know, "Show me the…I want to go see the site of the new building. I want to go see…Let me go look at it." You know, "I want to see, is it flat? Is it sloping? How big is it? And I've got to get familiar with the codes here. Let me go to the library and study the codes." They go, "Well, there's a problem with the building. We're not ready for it yet." You know, "We don't have the land actually yet. We're not even thinking about it yet. It's…" "but…in a few years, we'll be doing it." And I'm going, "Well, I'm an architect, you know?" I'm not going to go around interviewing people. I was, like, five years in college. I'm not…I don't want to go around and talk to anyone. I love architecture, you know? Sweated my way through college to qualify. And they're going, "Okay. You need to read this Flag Order written by L. Ron Hubbard. This governs what you do in the Sea Organization." And so they showed me this Flag Organization. It said, "Once…" Oh, I had signed a billion year contract by this point…

Stacy: Which everybody has to do that joins the Sea Org.

Lawrence: Yes. So they showed me this Flag Order. It said…L. Ron Hubbard…I can't quote this verbatim but L. Ron Hubbard says to the effect, "Once you are in the Sea Org," you know, "you have been selected for a higher purpose and you do what you're told." You don't do what you want to do because you do what is best for the Sea Organization and therefore, what is best for the whole of mankind. You do what you're told. You don't do what you want to do. Your wishes are unimportant compared to the plight humanity is in." So they said, "You are not going to be an architect. You are going to do something else." So, like, you know, so I'm like…

Stacy: So, at that point, what did you think?

Lawrence: I'm just, like…I was pissed! I'm, like, I'm in a daze. I mean, I remember walking outside thinking, you know, "My kids are here. My wife is here. We're living in a (unintelligible). I'm not going to be an architect anymore." I just felt like they had chopped my right arm off, you know?

Stacy: And what was it that made you think they could have that kind of control over you?

Lawrence: Well, I said…so, I found my wife. I said, "You know," I said, "This isn't going well. I've been lied to. You've been lied to." I said, "I'm going back to England. We're all going back to England. That's it. Were out of here." You know, "This is like a con job." And she said, "You don't understand anything about the Sea Organization." You know, "You're being suppressive. You'd better straighten up your act." She said, "If you go back to England, you go back by yourself," you know, "because I'm here. The kids are not leaving."

Stacy: And with what authority did you feel like she could keep your children?

Lawrence: The fact that I was in America and I had no legal status, you know. I was a missionary. But, like, not a missionary, you know. I had a few thousand dollars saved but I didn't, you know…I mean, I had read articles in England about…you know, they would have headlines, "Scientology breaks up families." I had already heard the word "disconnection" used over and over again. Any problem, you know, if you're connected to anyone, a family member, a sister, a mother or father who gives you a hard time about Scientology…disconnection. So, I knew…then I'm thinking it's all true. The Church…they use disconnection to handle their problems. They just will break up a family at the drop of a hat, you know? So I began to think, "Uh-oh. Like, here I am. I'm…what am I into?"

Stacy: Now you feel trapped.

Lawrence: Now I feel trapped. Like, you know, I didn't even have the wherewithal. I mean, they had my passport. They had taken that. My children were on my wife's passport, as they were minors. So how do I even escape? You know, and I'm not going to just go by myself. Because already I knew the kids were, like, unhappy. Astra, the eight year old was like…she had been told by her mother that she was just coming to Florida for a vacation. So, she was like, "I don't like it here, Daddy. I don't like it here. There's no school." You know, she wasn't going to a private school…she was sent to, like, Belger Elementary Public School and she was…it was all strange to her. She hated it. Zoe was in the nursery. Matthew had already been run over by a car on Highway 19 because he got mixed up about what side of the road. You know, in England it's the other side of the road for driving and he got mixed up and got hit by a car. Already Astra started to, you know, they promised us full medical coverage. Astra developed an abscess on one of her teeth and I had to take her to the dentist. And he's, like, saying, you know, "You should have brought her imMediately." And "I'm going to need to see her a separate time. She needs the tooth removed. This abscess cleaned up." And I had to pay her out my savings, you know. I had to pay the dentist out of my savings because the Church would take up to a week to get the money-if they would get it-for medical. And the dentist said, "This is imMediate, otherwise she's going to have major problems and lose several teeth." So, you know, already, I'm thinking I've got to stay and look out for my kids, you know? I can't just take off by myself back to England. And do what, you know?

Stacy: Did you, in fact, ever get any kind of medical help from the Church?

Lawrence: No. I mean, I had to pay for Matthew's accident, x-rays and I paid for her medical, her dental costs. …

Stacy: Did you ever try to get reimbursed?

Lawrence: No. I just…there was someone there called the staff section officer. A guy called…I can't remember his name. But anyway, he was just like, this guy was like…you would go to his office, he was like…he had just piles of medical bills and he was so distracted, you could barely talk to him. And he was dealing with, like, people who had cancer, people with broken legs, people with, like, horrible conditions. And he was, this guy was just fighting to get money.

Stacy: And if you would try to…

Lawrence: And then you go to him with like a little trivial problem…with a dental problem. He was like (heavy sigh).

Stacy: A trivial problem like an abscessed tooth?

Lawrence: A little problem like that was, like, he's saying, "You don't understand. I've got people with cancer. I've got people with heart conditions." He said, "I'd like to help you but I just don't even know where to start." He said, like, submit the bill… "Pay for it. Why don't you go ahead and pay for it on your credit card and submit the bill and I'll see what I can do." But then I read a policy in finance where, you know, if you go ahead and pay for something without an approved purchase order, the finance officer turns around and says, "Thank you for your contribution." You know, it's deemed that you've paid for it without approval. So, I mean, I thought, "Oh, they'll have a medical flow," you know? Or I thought they would have medical insurance, you know, full coverage. They don't have medical insurance. There is no medical insurance. So, like, it's, you know…Anyway, if you're there trying to look after your kids, what do you do, you know? So then, I think, "Okay. I've got to somehow live through this. I've…my main priority is my kids." You know, like, "What have I…" and then the feelings of guilt, you know. "What exactly have I dropped my kids into?" You know, "What have I got them into?" And then I think, you know, I think…the thought process I go through is, you know, "I'm upset with the Church and I really don't have any right to be because, you know, this is the Church that is, like, on a mission to save mankind." And "It really is the only…you know…it's the only solution to mankind's problems and here am I with a few petty little problems," you know. And then, "Look at my wife, you know, look how dedicated she is." And I'm thinking, "Okay. Here's the solution. I go to ethics. I, like, explain to them. I just…I'm going to be honest. I'm going to tell them what's going on and they can fix me. Whatever it is, they can fix me. And if I can just be…life here is going to be hard…it's going to be tough. But, like, look at all of these dedicated people here, you know? They've all had their little problems with their medical and what have you. But, you know, they have something…they have somehow risen above that and become good Sea Org Members. I want to be fixed to become like them. And then everything will be fine because then I can live again." So, I go to ethics and they say, "Okay," you know, "Thank you for being honest. We will now show you some L. Ron Hubbard references and we will get you to do the conditions." Which is like you find out the condition you're in…

Stacy: Ethics condition.

Lawrence: Ethics conditions. And then you work through it. And you cannot get through the conditions…you cannot move from condition to condition and come up the levels without becoming happier and without realizing how to handle your problems.

Stacy: Because the tech works.

Lawrence: Because the tech works. So, I'm going, "Great," you know, "I can solve all my problems." So anyway, I study the references on, like, responsibility. You know, Hubbard had written something called "Responsibility." You know, where you have to like rise to a higher level. You know, you have to make it go right. You have to like rise above your problems and use Scientology technology and realize, you know, what's needed of you and then, you know, do your duty, you know. And then if you really do all these things and then you…in the conditions, you go through the condition of doubt, you know…there's one condition called doubt where you're thinking, you know, you're asked which group should you join? Should you, like, go back to England and be an architect or should you stay here and be a good Sea Org Member and help Scientology clear the planet? You know, so you work through it and you work through it until eventually, I came out of it, you know?

Lawrence: So, your mindset about it is that going back to England and going back to being an architect would be a selfish thing to do basically…

Lawrence: Right. Yeah. Right.

Stacy: …when there are such bigger problems to be dealing with in the world and…

Lawrence: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah and I have to make sacrifices, you know, which aren't necessarily pleasant but I have to be prepared to do that for the greatest good for mankind itself, you know? Like, I was told we just only have a few years left for Scientology to do its thing before the planet destroys itself, you know. And, like, what do you want to be, like, a little middleclass architect with a house and a car and a dog and a cat? Like having fun while the whole planet goes down the tubes? Do you want to do that? Is that what you want to do? Or do you want to join the team that is, like, saving mankind from destruction and death and horror, you know. "Okay. I don't want to be an architect anymore. I'm sorry." (laughs) Anyway, so I agreed to do this job to go around interviewing people. And I even…trying…I even get into a little bit, you know. And then this probably goes on for, like, six months. And, you know, but then…if ever I do get a day off, like maybe once a month, I would get, like, the day off, I would do my best to take my…you know, I bought a car with my savings from selling my house. And I would take my kids out on trips to the beach, you know. Trips to Busch Gardens. And then I would rush home every night at dinner time and see them in what they called Family Time. And just…and I knew…and you know, Astra was having trouble at school. So, I went to the school and spoke to the principal and you know, I really just did what I can to kind of try and hold the whole family together.

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