Transcript of Part Six

Maria Pia: Then I said, "Why do I keep an apartment here in Florida if I stay in Italy?" So, I called Jim Natzer and I said, "Sell my condo." It was very easy. In three days, he sold it. I don't know but they have ears and tents. I don't know what they have, the Scientologists there. I was coming out from the bank…

Stacy: In Florida?

Maria Pia: Yes. AmSouth Bank where I got the money.

Stacy: For the sale of the condominium.

Maria Pia: I found four people-four officers of Scientology-out of the bank. They took me to Fort Harrison, at the last floor there, the special LRH properties. Do you know they made in gold all this bullshit? And they made…

Stacy: What did they make in gold?

Maria Pia: The Scientology books in steel. Yeah, because you can put it under the earth and the next generation, when they arrive, they'll say "What is this bullshit?" (interviewer laughs)

Stacy: But you can buy those?

Maria Pia: They are not so cute. But you can buy those. You can buy an apartment with the price of those. I was kept there by four officers.

Stacy: And what happened?

Maria Pia: You know what happened? I made a check of $25,000 to get out! I bought the Dianetics book of steel. But they are thieves because the Dianetics Book of Steel are six boxes. They sent me the first two boxes in Italy and that's it! They must have two spare boxes they say, "That poor stupid. We sent two. That's enough."

Stacy: They never even sent you what you paid for?

Maria Pia: No. And those two boxes I threw in the garbage with all the rest of Scientology material. If you come to my house, there's nothing. The gold crest of OT7, the gold crest of OT8…everything is gone to the garbage! The bust of LRH - everything! I had nausea, you know? When I hear Scientology, I have nausea! When I took the last flight for Italy, you know, it was like as if I was 20 years younger. That was the truth revealed! Not OT8! That was truth revealed to get away from the people! (laughs) But that started all the tax problems.

Stacy: What do you mean?

Maria Pia: I mean that I didn't have…I was broke. At that point, I was broke. I gave one million dollars for donations plus. This is another point-before leaving Flag, I realized that in the Class 8 course room, there was no one that was Italian. So, I was regged for a one million dollar donation for Italy?? There was not one Italian! And the material of Class would not have been translated. So, I went to the Captain, I said, "I want my money back!"

Stacy: You went to Debbie Cooke?

Maria Pia: Yeah! And she showed me, "You know, look!" She brought me-near the auditorium there is a marble block with all the names of the donators. "Your name is in gold there!" I said, "I am no longer a Sea Org member." She said, "No, you're routed out." Okay, I said, "Debbie!" I do not say "sir" - "Debbie! Take away that name from there! I am not dead yet!" You put it there when I die. I am not dead yet. And I want my money back! Because you-that was a trick-the story of Italy like that. We have Japanese, American, English, Australian and the only Italian that was in the course room took off because he couldn't study in English!"

Stacy: So, the whole thing was a fraud?

Maria Pia: It was a fraud, a total fraud! The Captain, FSO, Mrs. Debbie Cooke bought a new car with my money! It's not from that…

Stacy: What do you mean?

Maria Pia: She bought a car!

Stacy: She got some of the money that you donated for the Class 8?

Maria Pia: Yes. Because see, apparently, she told-it was the ethics officer that told me, it's not that I knew from her-because I saw her with a new car. I said, "Oh, is she rich from her house that she bought a car?" An expensive car! She said, "No, she got the commission on your donation." I said, "My one million dollar donation? She got the commission?"

Stacy: Oh my gosh!

Maria Pia: "And she bought a car?" So it's for this that I gave my money and I went broke?" I was furious! I left and I said, "Debbie, you are no longer my Captain. I call you Debbie. Debbie, I want my money back!"

Stacy: What did she say?

Maria Pia: I said, "I will go in the Court and get that because that's fraud!" I said, "I'm broke! I have to sell my parents' house!" And I left. Altogether, I gave Scientology more than two million dollars! Anyway, I went to a lawyer. I had problems, you know, problems to the point that I was losing the furniture in my house. I don't know how they knew it-because they know everything. I am sure they know that I am here talking to you. I am sure! So they called me and they said, "We can make an arrangement." And they sent a person to Rome where they have a lawyer with a check.

Stacy: What is this?

Maria Pia: Yeah, she was doing like that (indicating) with the check under my nose, knowing that I was losing the furniture in my house because of them. And say, "Okay. Let's talk about the one million dollar donation." I said, "Let's talk about everything, not only about the one million dollar donation." So they made me sign an agreement that I would have left $500,000 and get $500,000 back.

Stacy: They agreed to give you half the money back?

Maria Pia: Half the money of the donation!

Stacy: Of the Class 8 auditor donation?

Maria Pia: Yeah! Not of the money that I paid for my bridge, for OT levels, for all the other garbage.

Stacy: So, this was just for the Class 8 donation?

Maria Pia: Yeah, for the Class 8 donation.

Stacy: In return for what? Did they tell you?

Maria Pia: They wanted to help me. They were very helpful, you know? The Captain of Flag is very helpful. I remember I told her, "If you are so helpful, you should have just left me in peace when I was down there." So, anyway, they sent me 3 checks: one month, one month, one month…the half million dollars. I don't have a copy of that agreement.

Stacy: You didn't get a copy of the agreement?

Maria: No. Because they said, "We have to bring the agreement back and it must be signed in Flag also by the Captain." By, I don't know, by David Miscaviage, the other thief, the other big thief! I never had a copy of that.

Stacy: They didn't send it to you?

Maria: No! I asked a lot of times. And they told me, "You know, you are in good standing. You still have $29,000 on your account. If you ever want to come to Flag as a public to have a good time in Florida or to get some auditing." I will never have that. But something in my head clicked. After a few months, I called Flag and the girl at the call-in, Natalie, told me, "But I don't think you have any money." I said, "Wait a moment. I had a $29,000 in my account." She said, "Call me back tomorrow." I called back the day after, she said, "No. First of all, you don't have any money." I said, "No, Natalie. You are wrong." "No. That money is no longer there. Second, we don't agree that you can come to Flag."

Stacy: But did they say that you weren't in good standing after all?

Maria: Well, to make me sign, yes.

Stacy: But they told you that if you would agree to take only half of your money back then, in return for that, you would be able to continue to get services at Flag?

Maria: Yeah.

Stacy: But then when you called, it turned out that that was untrue. You weren't allowed to continue to get services at Flag?

Maria: No. I wasn't allowed. So, at that moment, I took a paper and pen and I wrote to the Captain, FSO, Mrs. Debbie Cooke. I wrote to Mr. Miscaviage that is at the top of all this. I wrote to the EDE, Mr. Geome LaSavre. I said, "I want all my money back!" I wanted a total refund!

Stacy: Not just of the money from the…

Maria: No, I wanted it all! All the money that I gave for my services that were bullshit that never had any…I didn't feel well, I felt…I was a wealthy person when I arrived in Scientology. I was like a beggar at the end. They took everything from me!

Stacy: And you…

Maria: No answer. No answer. No answer. I wrote to the CLO Italy where I was the Qual Sec, Italy. It came out that they didn't know me!

Stacy: What do you mean?

Maria: They didn't know me. "We have no track of you." (interviewer laughs) I wrote to…

Stacy: Unbelievable!

Maria: That is the biggest. I wrote to the Rome Org. It was my org where I started. It came out that "We have no track of you here that you paid something here."

Stacy: You're kidding!

Maria: I wrote in answer, I said, "Look at the bust of LRH you have at the door. Every time you go in and out, that is paid by me!" I went to a lawyer. I was, for three years, Stacy, I was going around, like, stupid. Then Carl Brown Steiner that's a very good friend of mine from Austria told me of your group.

Stacy: About the Lisa McPherson Trust?

Maria: Yeah. That's why I came to you. You know, I feel, like, stupid. I was stupid. But they-what they did to me-was to wait until my daughter died. My daughter was dead. My mother was dead. I was in pain and having emotional troubles. At that moment, they caught me. They never would have caught me if I were normal, like I am now. Now, I am a normal person.

Stacy: Yeah.

Maria: No more BTs. Nothing.

Stacy: Well, how do you feel about Scientology after this whole experience?

Maria: It's not a religion. It's a money making group. It's not a religion at all. And I feel that Scientology doesn't help anybody. It helps only the pockets of the INT management. That I know.

Part One xPart TwoxxPart Three xPart Four xPart Five xPart Six