Transcript of Part Five

Barbara: First you think you're the only sucker on the earth, you know, or the only one that's been taken. And then, I started talking to the mother of a dentist who gave his entire life savings and everything, is divorcing his wife, he gave all the money to the Church of Scientology because of the Marcus Group. And I was involved in telling, you know, initially he would be in the courses with us. And I said, "Gee, this is a good thing." You know, and it's good. But he went way off the deep end and I tried to talk to him to get him back, you know? And he just wasn't listening. So, I had talked to this young man's mother. I had talked to this dentist's mother and she gave me the name of Jim Bebe. And she said call him, that he used to work for CAN, the Cult Awareness Network. But now, Scientology has taken over the Cult Awareness Network. And, in fact, at all their meetings, like, New Year's, they had big TV screens and it's a big indoctrination propaganda thing. And one of the main things was that they took over CAN, the Cult Awareness Network and everyone went, "Yeah! We have their symbol." So, now anyone that calls the Cult Awareness Network is speaking to a Scientologist, which Scientology is essentially a cult. So, you know, they're talking to someone that's in a cult. So, when I found out about Jim Bebe and I called him and spoke to him, it just gave me such a boost. Such a joy to have someone that had been in there and knew what it was about. He told me, "Yes! What you're thinking is right!" and "Yes, it's true!" We were very happy because you kind of hate the Marcus Group for funneling you into the Church of Scientology initially. And the people there, you know, you're angry at them. And then you turn inward and you're fighting with your spouse. So, it was very comforting to find someone that could help you. I mean, he was, like, a big band aid! He was fabulous! And after I talked to him, I felt like, "Oh my God! There's hope!" Because I had been fighting this battle alone for the past two years trying to get my money back and trying to deal with my feelings and questioning what happened. And so, then I said to Bill, I said, "You've got to talk to this guy. He's great. He just really puts it in a good perspective and makes you feel okay." I mean, there's a certain amount of embarrassment and you feel like you were duped and how could you be so stupid. And I mean, whatever anyone's thinking, believe me, you think it, you know, how could this happen? But I'm just telling you it happens. And I know a lot of dentists here that have been taken by these people. They won't talk about it but they have. But some of them are still in it and are in the deep end, you know? And they're going to end up being waiters and not practicing their profession and just being zombies. They take all their money! They get them to divorce their wives. They don't care if they have little kids. Their purpose is greater than your purpose. Their purpose is to get every penny you have-to get everything. That's their goal and then to get your mind! We had told him about the incident the week before where my husband and I had gone in. We had gone to go for a meeting for our refund check, okay, which they have had for over a year and a half. And they keep holding it out like a carrot. It's money that we had as a credit. And so we went to talk about that and my husband put his hand on the door and they had this big, you know, fat guy in front of the door. And he wouldn't let my husband in. And he said, "Where's the signed papers? Where's the signed papers?" They want you to sign waivers. This is their thing. You have to sign the waiver to get your money. But if you involve an attorney to sign the waiver or anybody else, then they're not going to give you your money back. Well, the way these waivers are worded, you can't figure out what they're talking about! Of course, you need an attorney. Never do they want you to have your rights! You know, they want to tell you what to do, what to sign, when to sign. They never want you to have your rights. If they're not hiding something then why don't they let you just get legal advice? It seems to me like I would say, "Go get legal advice so that you're fine with this." No! If you include a lawyer, then they don't even want to deal with you, which is totally wrong. So, he wouldn't let us in unless we had the signed papers. And I had questions on it! You know, there's a lot of things like affiliated groups, well, what is that? I want to know exactly what affiliated groups are. It could be, you know, the group we're suing. So, he had his hand on the door. We started yelling, "We want our money! We want our money!" So, they had the doors blocked and my husband saw police across the street and he yelled, "Officer! Officer!" And so, the police came over and we said, "These people swindled us out of our money. We're here to get our money back. We made an appointment and now they won't let us in. So it was a big brew-ha, you know? So I told the police, you know, a little bit about the cult and everything and they set up an appointment for 7:30 Tuesday. And that's when you came, you know, to go to that meeting with us to film it and to ask if they would let you come in. And that was when they had all their heavy guns ready, you know? Like they were being attacked. They had the whole street staked out. They had all the windows papered so you couldn't see in or the people inside couldn't see out, you know? And so that's when you were jumped and taken away and then they wanted to talk to me. And I said, "I see the kind of reception you give. And I see how you want to negotiate." I said, "I don't think I'm going to sign any papers on the street because I don't have a dictionary so I can look up every word now, do I?" And that's when she said, "Well, I have a quiet place inside." And, you know, here's these women…they must be 50, 60 years old and they're talking like zombies, you know? They don't even make sense! They can't even think for themselves! They don't even know how to get a piece of paper without someone saying, "You can take the paper from that pile." You know, "You can make the fax now." They don't just know how to do it. They have to ask permission for every little step. That's how controlled they are. It's really sad, you know. And these people, their bodies are deteriorating but they don't care because they have, you know, another life right after. (laughs) You know, it's not like they really take care of themselves. It's sad. It's really sad. Well, the other night after you were tackled, you know, for being on the sidewalk and taken away, Pam Valinski came out on the sidewalk and she said, "We want you to come inside." And I told the officers there, "I don't want to go inside! What if they get me down there and never let me out or kill me or something?" I said, "I know a friend of mine that they had down there and he was afraid. He said there were three or four of them around him and he's a small man. He couldn't get out. He said, 'I was worried. I felt really afraid.'" And it comes to that where you get kind of feeling a little afraid like, "Whoa! These people are really kind of fanatic and bizarre. Who knows what they're going to pull?" So, I said to the policeman, "I'm not going down there." So I said, "They have to come out on the street. You come out on the street." I said, "I'm not going in there." And I moved down by the little restaurant next door because I didn't even want to be in front of their place. So they came out on the street and she said, "Well, you know, we don't want the truth to come out now, do we? If we have to go to court to give you back your money, it's going to be ugly." She kind of threatened me, you know? They use threats a lot to keep you quiet and she threatened, you know, that if we have to go to court, it could be really ugly. And I said, "Well, it would be nice if the truth really did come out," (laughs) but I think they're going to keep it from coming out. But the first thing you do when you go to one of those groups is they have you write up your overts and withholds, okay? Any thought you ever had in your life, your whole life since you were a kid, any deed that you did that was wrong, they want you to write it down. To help cleanse you because the Catholic church doesn't really have a way of helping you deal with it but they do. So, you write it all out and get it out, you know? And then, supposedly, they shred it. But I think they never shred it. They keep it on everyone and they use that. And they refer to that if, you know, if they want to. They refer to it. And if they don't have anything on you, then they just make it up. (laugh) They make it up anyway, you know?

Bill: The people that I've talked to have, you know, become angry and have no sympathy and are relentless and then they go up scale and they become bored or disinterested in order to get you to comply with their wishes. It's a technique that they use to control people and to manipulate people. They use it on the students that are in the classroom and then they teach you that in order to control your patients.

Barbara: I remember Revane lecturing to us and saying, "You have to pressure the patients. If you care about them. You have to pressure the patients to see that they get the work they need. You really can't lighten up. If you lighten up, you're not doing what you should be doing. Because if you really care about them and you know the work they need, you have to push them. You have to get them to do it. You have to push them." And that's what they were doing to us, too. You know, they were pushing us. It's, like, in the name of good but it was going in their pockets, you know?

Bill: They substitute their jargon, their thinking, their lying in your mind because they gain control that way. And then they can manipulate you and they can chew you up and spit you out once they got all your money. You are useless to them after that.

Barbara: It just reminded me of, like, sheep going to the slaughter. And I never thought I was a sheep myself. But, you know, I always thought I was pretty strong and forceful but I was a sheep going to the slaughter, just like the timid ones, you know? We were all going on the same road. And if someone didn't agree with them, they didn't care-go. They'd find somebody else. They do so many massive mailers and what they say in the mailers is so appealing. Because they study what appeals to the dentist and they know exactly what to say so that they always have a big group of dentists coming. Then if they dirty up one area, like this area, then move out of state, like, to D.C. or to another state, see? And then they work over there. You know, and they have dentists flying over there for their courses.

Interviewer: Did you ever fly down to LA or to Flag?

Barbara: We flew to Florida. They try to get you close to their locations, you know, to get you used to going that way. You know, so then when you go for yourself, it's no big deal. We went to Florida for one of their ___________ seminars. All the most successful docs got to go, you know? And we got to go and they give you an award especially if they haven't taken all your money, then you get a lot of awards, okay? And they were like, "Oh, you're wonderful!" I really think that the Marcus Group is like a funnel group for the Church of Scientology. They just funnel you into the Church. You know, first you think it's for business because, had I known that it was for the Scientology religion, I would never go! You know, if they said, "Well, here…we're going to teach you our religion. I would never go!" But what they teach you is their religion. They teach it to you and you don't even know they're teaching it to you and then they get you going on it, you know? But they've been doing this for a long time to a lot of dentists. You know, all these L. Ron Hubbard based groups and they leave all this devastation in their wake that the public never hears about. Because, you know, for, like, ten cents on the dollar, they buy these doctors off! Maybe they owe you $30,000 that you have in credits! You've never taken those courses! Credits! And they say, "Well, you have to sign a waiver," which, you know, just about signs over your first born to them. It's a gag order and we'll give you back $6,000-that's it! No more package deal. If you're not going to pay for everything then it's a lot more expensive. And they actually steal their money like that. They're ruthless and they go on! And they don't care. They don't care what they're doing.

Bill: I feel that, you know, that I was wronged. I feel that it damaged my business and my credit and my credibility and jeopardized my licensure in my profession. And I intend to get satisfaction.

Barbara: These management groups are ruthless. You have to be real careful of getting involved in any group like that. They all have the same end goal. Their purpose is to get every penny you have! That's their goal and then to get your mind!

Part One xPart TwoxxPart Three xPart Four xPart Five