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Radio Broadcast


Lewis at Large
December 29, 1998

Jim Beebe is interviewed.


Part One


Part One



TODD LEWIS: Coming up on our show today--we talked about Scientology yesterday. Man, what a show that was! We had only planned to talk about that for a half-hour and we ended up doing the whole show about it. It was fascinating. And there was one guy that we didn’t get a chance to talk to yesterday. You may remember sort of the, these little subplots that were going on. One of them was, we tried to get to this, hold of this Cult Awareness Network because we wanted to find out, do--are there people that are, you know, officials that are concerned about the safety of people in Scientology? Do some people consider it a cult? Well, we got a hold of the Cult Awareness Network, and after speaking to them about, for about 15 minutes and having them assure us that the Scientology was not a cult, the--we found out that the woman on the phone was a Scientologist and that the Cult Awareness Network is now--it wasn’t but it is now owned by the Church of Scientology. So there’s all sorts of things. Anyways, we were trying to get a hold of the guy who originally started the Cult Awareness Network and didn’t know where he was, because it hadn’t always been owned by the Church of Scientology. Well, we finally got a hold of him, and we’re gonna have him on the show today, kind of wrap things up and get the last person the last kind of straw to this whole story about what’s going on.

[music starts playing]

TODD LEWIS: Jim Beebe is joining us, and he is a former Scientology member and also a former volunteer with the Cult Awareness Network who, he has just informed us, used to be this independent, I guess, organization looking into cults and providing information, just collecting articles, and if people called they had information on different organizations, and Scientology being one of them. Well, Scientology has since bought out the Cult Awareness Network and now they operate it.

JIM BEEBE: When I went to work for CAN, I thought I knew something about cults because of my involvement with Scientology; but I quickly found out that I had a lot to learn.

TODD LEWIS: And when was this? How long ago was this?

JIM BEEBE: OK, I was a CAN staff member, an actual staff member, from, um--for about a year and a half, from December until we were forced to close in, in June of 1996.


JIM BEEBE: All that CAN did was make available information that had been written in different publications about different groups.


JIM BEEBE: That’s all CAN did. And in some cases, CAN could refer people to former members of different groups.


JIM BEEBE: What happened to CAN was that--well, CAN was harassed right into bankruptcy by the Church of Scientology. The Church of Scientology had been getting away with an array of frauds and crimes that were truly appalling, and all on tax-exempt money. One of the things they did was, they spent a lot of money harassing CAN. They filed over 50 frivolous lawsuits against CAN, a whole series of actions. They finally financed a bogus lawsuit, the Jason Scott case, and this forced CAN right into bankruptcy. The bankruptcy court--

TODD LEWIS: You mean they couldn’t afford to fight the case.

JIM BEEBE: Exactly. They didn’t have--Scientology has a lot of money. They will spend any amount of money, uh, to harass anybody they perceive as an enemy, you see. Uh, and CAN could not fight, fight this off.

TODD LEWIS: What exactly, real quick, what was this Jason Scott case that did ‘em in?

JIM BEEBE: Um, Jason Scott--Jason Scott’s mother got involved with a, a, some offbeat Pentecostal church, and she dragged her kids into it, three kids, OK? Uh, it didn’t take her long to figure out that she was in a destructive group and she wanted out. She got out; however, her kids were still in it. Uh, this Pentecostal group programmed her kids to believe that their mother was possessed by Satan and that they should not--they should leave her house. Now some church members, as I understand it, took her kids in. And so here’s this young mother, and her kids believe she is possessed by Satan, right? The kids won’t come home.


JIM BEEBE: So she called a woman who happened to be an affiliate of CAN, the Cult Awareness Network. Ultimately she engaged a cult counselor, whose name is Rick Ross, to come and work with her kids, to, to, to try and persuade her kids that she was not possessed by Satan and they really--really ought to come home. OK, he did work with these kids, and the younger kids did come home. There was an older boy, about 17 or 18; he balked at this and in fact he went to the police saying he had been kidnapped. Well, Rick Ross and some other guys the mother had engaged were arrested, there, they were--then they were released. Uh, and then guess who came along? The Church of Scientology got wind of this, and they got a hold of Jason Scott, who is the older boy who went to the police, who--

TODD LEWIS: And was still at this Pentecostal Church.



JIM BEEBE: They dangled a million dollars in front of Jason Scott and, and then talked him into a lawsuit against the Cult Awareness Network and against Rick Ross, OK? They claimed the Cult Awar--the Cult Awareness Network was behind all this.


JIM BEEBE: So, uh, a Scientologist lawyer handled this whole case. They financed it, and it went to a trial. The tri--the jury in this trial was not permitted to know that Scientology was financing, was behind this case. Um, they came down with a million dollar award against Rick Ross and a million dollar award against the Cult Awareness Network. That forced the Cult Awareness Network, CAN, right into bankruptcy. We had to close with an hour’s notice. The judge put CAN’s assets up for sale. The assets were primarily office stuff. And, um, the public at large did not know anything about this. Primarily the only people who did know about this were, were the Church of Scientology.


JIM BEEBE: And agents from the Church of Scientology bought the CAN assets for 20 thousand bucks, which included the name and the phone number. So today they are operating the Cult Awareness Network; and if your daughter gets lured into some cult and somebody says, "Why don’t you call CAN or the Cult Awareness Network for information?" and you call there, guess who you’re gonna be talking to? Members of the Church of Scientology, one of the most destructive cults out there.

TODD LEWIS: Well we know that, because we talked to them yesterday. laughing

JIM BEEBE: Right--

TODD LEWIS: (?????) side--

JIM BEEBE: You see how--how outrageous this whole thing is--

TODD LEWIS: Jim? I assume you considered, because you were in this church and you got out and you offered yourself as a volunteer--


TODD LEWIS: That the, the Church of Scientology in your mind is a cult--


TODD LEWIS: I want to know what that means. What does that mean?

JIM BEEBE: Well, a cult is a, a group that uses deceptive and coercive means to, to recruit people into a belief system. Um, there are a lot of groups around that are considered cults that fit into this category.

TODD LEWIS: Any that we--

JIM BEEBE: Many of them are religions but not necessarily all of them are. There are business cults out there, too.

TODD LEWIS: Are there some that we would know by name?

JIM BEEBE: Oh, sure. Groups that are considered cults?


JIM BEEBE: Oh, for example--well, some of the groups that we used to get the most calls on were, of course, the Church of Scientology. Uh, another one was the International Churches of Christ; we got a lot of calls on them. Now, that’s not to be confu--people get them confused with The Church of Christ; they are not The Church of Christ.


JIM BEEBE: And they are not The United Church of Christ, which is the old congregational church.


JIM BEEBE: They are the International Churches of Christ. They take on the name of whatever city they’re in--the Chicago Church of Christ, the Miami Church of Christ.


JIM BEEBE: Um, this is a very coercive, destructive group; they particularly, they target a lot of college kids, they hang around college campuses.

TODD LEWIS: Now, after learning what you said you thought you knew about cults, but after getting involved with the Cult Awareness Network you realized you hadn’t, do you still consider the Church of Scientology to be right up there?

JIM BEEBE: Oh, yeah, they’re one of the most destructive, greedy cults in the world, yeah.

TODD LEWIS: Now, you said they took over the asset--or took over the Cult Awareness Network, bought them because they were in default or whatever.


TODD LEWIS: And--now I understand there were some files or something that, uh, were purchased--

JIM BEEBE: Yeah. Let me just, um, finish up on that. Now Jason Scott, who won the million dollar award, he quickly realized that he wasn’t going to get a dime and that Scientology had used him. And he, he himself nullified the award against Rick Ross; he is now getting counseling from Rick Ross. He tried to nullify the award against CAN; the judge said, "No, you can’t nullify this award." So it’s, it’s still out there up in the air. Now a big area of contention are the CAN files--never mind "The X Files", these are the CAN files--

TODD LEWIS: (laughs) Sounds similar.

JIM BEEBE: Yeah, in the CAN files are a lot of--see, most everybody that called CAN asked for and were assured of confidentiality. But very often we took down their names, their addresses, for different reasons, and all of this is in the CAN files, and this is what Scientology is trying to get a hold of. They want to get these names, OK? They want to find out who called CAN about them. And the, the files are still in a warehouse, OK? There are over 300 boxes of, of CAN files--I was just over there the other day for a particular thing. And CAN is trying to seize them as part of the assets, but when people found out that this cult might get a hold of their names and addresses, they protested.


JIM BEEBE: And the cults are--the files are still there. Now Scientology is trying now to make another grab for ‘em. And, um--

TODD LEWIS: What do you contend was their primary goal in taking over the CAN?

JIM BEEBE: Well, their primary goal is to take over this whole planet. I mean, at the core of this whole--

TODD LEWIS: Now, Jim--

JIM BEEBE: Cult, is a secret, very bizarre world domination scheme. I’m not kidding you. This is a--

TODD LEWIS: You’ve got to be!

JIM BEEBE: This is a Nazi cult, OK? This is a Nazi cult, complete--they’ve got their own mad messiah, L. Ron Hubbard. They’ve got their own SS, which is called the Sea Org, S-E-A. They’ve got their own Gestapo, which is called the Office of Special Affairs, the OSA. They’ve got their own little concentration camp called the RPF, or the Rehabilitation Project Force. When you--when you screw up in Scientology, you get sent to this little concentration camp of theirs.

TODD LEWIS: All right.

JIM BEEBE: I--I mean, really, it’s, it’s a Nazi cult set-up.

TODD LEWIS: OK. Jim, I tell you what, I would ask you to hang out with us for just another minute or so, but we’ll be back. You’re listening to "Lewis at Large" on AM-850, WRUF.

[commercial break]

TODD LEWIS: This is "Lewis at Large" on AM-850, WRUF, and a good Tuesday afternoon to you; thank you very much for joining us. We are once again kind of wrapping the stuff up on the Church of Scientology--fascinating, absolutely fascinating stuff and the stories coming out of the church from the former members and so forth. And Jim Beebe is one of those; he was a Scientologist, and also got involved with the Cult Awareness Network, which was--two of the things that kind of sent shivers up my spine yesterday was---one, that we read that people who spoke out against them become targets; now we don’t know this is true, but this is what we hear from a lot of people. And that, you know, they will begin to report the crimes about you, both--what was it, real and unreal?

JIM BEEBE: None--known and unknown--

TODD LEWIS: Known and unknown (laughs). So we got a little worried that they’d be reporting unknown crimes about us; our known crimes were enough. And also, the fact that after we looked all over and found this Cult Awareness Network and thought, well, we’ll call and get some information and see, you know, if they have a lot of stories. And it’s almost like calling the Better Business Bureau on a mechanic you’re gonna take your car to, only to find out the mechanic owns the Better Business Bureau. So, you know, of course they’re saying, "Yeah, he’s the greatest mechanic in town!" Well, the Church of Scientology owns the Cult Awareness Network. They didn’t use to--they didn’t set this up--but there was this Cult Awareness Network; they went in and, through some means that Jim Beebe was explaining to us, now, anyways, own the Cult Awareness Network, all these files that went along with it of people who had called up to complain or ask questions--names and numbers and so forth. And also, Jim, there were secrets about the church?

JIM BEEBE: Well, uh, well, I’m not sure what you mean.

TODD LEWIS: Well, were there things about the church that they didn’t want the public to know?

JIM BEEBE: Well, Scientology has a lot of secrets they don’t want the public to know.

TODD LEWIS: But did the Cult Awareness Network have specific things?

JIM BEEBE: Well, no, I think that--primarily all the Cult Awareness Network did was collect--most of the information collected was, was in the public domain, magazine and newspaper articles and stuff like that. Now, people would, would send stuff to, all kinds of stuff on Scientology. I’ll tell you a funny incident that happened to me. Um, I, I was on the phone taking calls, and--and one day I had a call from somebody who wanted information on, on Scientology. Now in our office we had boxes of stuff that people had sent in, and we didn’t have time often to go through it. And at my feet under the desk was this box of stuff, and it kept getting in my way as I was making this phone call, and I finally kicked the box; and out of the box dropped the OT III course--course pack. It costs thousands of bucks to get to this, and--

TODD LEWIS: Oh, I heard about this yesterday about how certain--you had to pay so much to get certain courses and stuff.

JIM BEEBE: Right. Well, here was the--here was the secret course pack that somebody had sent in, it was right at my feet as I’m talking to this caller. And I, I started laughing so hard, I had to ring off the call and ask them to call back later (laughing).

TODD LEWIS: And so there it was. Can you tell us what it was or--?

JIM BEEBE: What’s that?

TODD LEWIS: What the course--

JIM BEEBE: Oh, the big secret?


JIM BEEBE: Oh, yes. Well, um, that is very bizarre. Um, you have to understand that the lower level people in Scientology know nothing about the big secret. The, the big secrets are not revealed until they get to the, the OT courses. And this is after they paid in probably, one hundred, two hundred thousand bucks at least.


JIM BEEBE: OK? And then the big secrets are revealed to ‘em. But the people who have taken the secret courses cannot discuss it even among themselves. So these are very, very--is, what it is, is a very bizarre extraterrestrial alien plot that L. Ron Hubbard cooked up. His son claimed that he came up with this stuff when he was high on drugs, and I believe it. It’s very, very bizarre. It would be hard for me to explain it to you here.

TODD LEWIS: All right. Again, Jim Beebe, a former Scientologist talking about this stuff, and--Jim, I’ve gotta ask you--in fact, I’ll tell you what. I’m gonna ask you a question after--first we’ll get our sports update and come back to you. Because I think the question a lot of people are probably asking you is: You sound like a reasonably astute man. How, if this is all you say it is, do reasonably astute people get involved with something like the Church of Scientology if it is in fact what you say it is?

JIM BEEBE: Scientology has any number--they have a number of, uh, front offices--

[part of broadcast cut off--conversation resumes with discussion of Chick Corea]

JIM BEEBE: And he was a very influential jazz musician, and--


JIM BEEBE: And every interview with him in music publications [?????] with Scientology and that was very influential in me getting involved.

TODD LEWIS: Now, Jim, I assume that the church would say you got a lot for your money.

JIM BEEBE: (laughs) Yeah, right! I’ll tell you what the, the, the--uh, what the legacy of involvement with Scientology is financial ruin, broken families and very often mental derangement; that’s what you get.

TODD LEWIS: And obviously they would say, "There are a lot of case studies of saved families, saved marriages"--

JIM BEEBE: Oh, that’s bull, you know. I’m sorry, I mean, there are broken divorced families all over this country--

TODD LEWIS: You were with them for a long time; so we get back to the question, "Why?". If this is a big Nazi--what did you call it, a Nazi cult?

JIM BEEBE: It’s a Nazi cult.

TODD LEWIS: You were with it for 20 years.

JIM BEEBE: No, I was with it about--I was off and on with them for about 12 years.


JIM BEEBE: Everything is L. Ron Hubbard. Every time you look at a Scientologist, all he can think of, 24 hours a day, is L. Ron Hubbard.


JIM BEEBE: OK. This programming is very deep.


JIM BEEBE: Now, after they’ve been thoroughly indoctrinated and programmed into Scientology and if they have enough money, they get to the secret OT courses. On OT III is revealed the Wall of Fire. Uh, the Wall of Fire is about something that supposed--that L. Ron Hubbard says happened 75 million years ago. There was a confederation of about 95 planets out there. This confederation was run by an evil galactic overlord whose name was Xenu--that’s spelled X-E-N-U.

TODD LEWIS: OK, he ran the confederation.

JIM BEEBE: He ran the confederation, very nasty, evil. Now this name Xenu is very secret; Scientologists cannot speak it and cannot write it.


JIM BEEBE: OK? They are programmed by L. Ron Hubbard to believe that if they are exposed to this material prematurely, they’ll get pneumonia and die, OK? And they believe that. So Xenu--on all these planets, they have a lot of overpopulation. So what he did, he rounded up billions of people, brought them here to this planet, dumped them in volcanoes--now how many people you can get in a volcano, I don’t know--

TODD LEWIS: He rounded up all the overpop--all the extra people--

JIM BEEBE: Right, brought ‘em to--

TODD LEWIS: Brought ‘em to Earth.

JIM BEEBE: Brought ‘em to Earth, dropped them in volcanoes, blew them up with hydrogen bombs.



TODD LEWIS: This is 95 million years ago?



JIM BEEBE: 75 million years ago.


JIM BEEBE: This is the Wall of Fire.


JIM BEEBE: Very secret.


JIM BEEBE: The souls, the spirits, they were released from these people who were blown up by hydrogen bombs. These spirits were trapped electronically by Xenu, OK?

TODD LEWIS: Trapped where, in the Earth’s atmosphere?



JIM BEEBE: They were trapped in clusters, and every human being today has clusters--now these, these dead alien spirits are called body thetans, T-H-E-T-A-N--

TODD LEWIS: Um-hmm--

JIM BEEBE: In Scientology--

TODD LEWIS: Um-hmm--

JIM BEEBE: A very secret word. These body thetans, these spirits, alien spirits, every human being today has clusters of thousands of these alien spirits called body thetans attached to them. They’re invisible. And their only hope to be free of these is L. Ron Hubbard’s golden technology.


JIM BEEBE: Now you understand why Lisa McPherson went insane.

TODD LEWIS: Lisa McPherson, of course, who started all this, her death on December 5, 1995 and the consequent protests and the now indictments against the church involved with her death.

JIM BEEBE: Right. Now--

TODD LEWIS: And this is why she went insane, because of the aliens?

JIM BEEBE: Well you can imagine; now you’re on the secret courses, you have to sit there in a little room with your e-meter, and you have to try and contact these body thetans, these invisible alien spirits, telepathically, and you have to run L. Ron Hubbard’s little secret processes on ‘em. OK?

TODD LEWIS: And that’s what they were doing to her when she was being held--

JIM BEEBE: That’s right, she was on the--

TODD LEWIS: At the Fort Harrison Hotel?

JIM BEEBE: Now, when people go insane on these courses, as they often do, L. Ron Hubbard’s solution is to put them in isolation. They lock ‘em up in a room.

TODD LEWIS: Which they did.

JIM BEEBE: And they, uh--and the person either recovers or dies or they send them home.

TODD LEWIS: All right.

JIM BEEBE: That’s what happened to Lisa--

TODD LEWIS: Lisa McPherson died.


TODD LEWIS: Jim Beebe, the former Scientologist and former, uh, volunteer with the Cult Awareness Network, which is now owned by the Church of Scientology. Jim, it was fascinating, to say the very least, talking to you and you sharing your insight on the church and your experience and I do appreciate it.

JIM BEEBE: Well, you have a terrific show there, very well done.

TODD LEWIS: Well, you were the exclusive guest, of course you would say that (laughs). Thanks, Jim.



JIM BEEBE: Can I give out my phone number?


JIM BEEBE: I mean, if people would like more information--

TODD LEWIS: Is this the same number where I had to get clearance before I got through?

JIM BEEBE: (laughs) Yeah, I don’t know where that came from, I didn’t set that up; it’s something from the phone company.

TODD LEWIS: All right.

JIM BEEBE: But if people would like more information, I am not in hiding. Uh, you can call me and my number is 847-205-1134.

TODD LEWIS: All right. Jim Beebe, thanks, Jim, good talking to you, sir.



Transcript courtesy of Batchild


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