Lisa McPherson Files - Interview Summaries
Summary Sheet of Interviews
From the Clearwater Police Department files on the investigation into Lisa
McPherson's death:
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FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158
Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 10/2/97
Location 644 Pierce Street Orig Incident Date 12/6/95
Victim Lisa McPherson VI Prosecute Yes No
Investigator Det. Sgt. Wayne Andrews
Previous Status Active
Subject
Impound Inventory
THURSDAY, AUGUST 21, 1997
At 0900 hours, FDLE Agent Lee Strope, Assistant State Attorney Mark McGarry, and
I met conducted a deposition with Gabriella Sanchez. She was accompanied by her
attorney, Robert Polli.
Gabriella Sanchez, W/F, DOB X/72
Background: She resides at X, Clearwater, Florida. Her mother
was a Scientologist and she then became one. She was on the staff at the Church in
Los Angeles and was on the staff with the Church in Clearwater when she arrived in
1990. She had numerous duties while on staff. At the time of Lisa McPherson's stay
at the Church, Gabriella was an executive member of FLAG.
Involvement With Lisa McPherson: Gabriella was advised by her senior, Frank
Fiozetti, Super Cargo, that she was responsible for assembling and setting up a
watch for the people who were going to take care of Lisa McPherson. Olivia Jalliot
was sent to find all of the women for the watch. She was told that reports would be
written by the caretakers and sent to Alain Kartuzinski. She herself only wrote a
schedule for the caretakers. She was told that Alain Kartuzinski would provide
further instructions. She attended a meeting conducted by Alain Kartuzinski on
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November 24, 1995, at which time he advised that Lisa was not doing well and a
watch had to be set up. He further advised that the caretakers should be informed
that Lisa needed peace and quiet and provided with food and water. He also
indicated that there should be not talking, and that they should block her
aggressions and hold her down if needed. Heather Petzold explained at the meeting
how to get her to eat. During the watch, security guards stood outside of the door
and it was unusual for the MLO to be involved in the watch. Alain Kartuzinski stated
at one lime that Lisa would get the introspection rundown when things quieted down.
She also indicated that she could not over-rule Alain Kartuzinski because he. was
making all of the decisions. We asked if she could remember the people assigned to
the watch and she stated that she would try to make a list after the deposition. She
made a handwritten list dated August 21, 1997 with the names of the following
people:
Suzanne Greene
Anna Pedizzina
Heather Petzold
Patricia Stracener
Rita Boykin
Sylvia Delavega
Valerie Demange
Laura Arrunada
Janice Johnson
Joan Stevens
Barbro Wennberg
Alice Van Grondelle
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The deposition with Gabriella Sanchez was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please
see the transcript for further details.
At 1100 hours, we conducted a deposition with Annie Mora. She was accompanied
by her attorney, Robert Polli.
Annie Mora, W/F, DOB X/61
Background: She resides at 551 N. Saturn Avenue, Clearwater, Florida. She got
involved in Scientology in 1982. She has resided in Clearwater since 1994 and is
assigned to the Office Of Special Affairs in research. Her responsibility is to collect
information and advise persons on how to deal with FLAPS and the Church.
Involvement With Lisa McPherson: Annie was called and told to go to Morton Plant
Hospital when Lisa was at the Emergency Room. She is basically a public relations
troubleshooter. She did a report, which has just been found recently and turned over
to the State Attorney's Office by Attorney Lee Fugate. She did two reports besides
that one but they have not yet been found and turned over to the State Attorney's
Office. At one time in the Office Of Special Affairs after Lisa's death, she saw all of
Lisa's files in Judy Fontana's office. These files were central file folders, ethics file
folders, and PC (pre-clear) folders. The report she turned over to the State Attorney's
Office had information in it from Lisa's pre-clear folders. We asked who turned that
information over to her. She stated that she was not sure but thought it was possibly
Alain Kartuzinski or Paul Kellerhals. She had minor contact with Lisa at the cabana
area when she was once asked to relieve one of the caretakers so they could get
something to eat. When she walked into Lisa's room, Lisa was by a locked door that
connected one room to another and licking the doorknob while talking to someone on
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the other side of the door. At that time, Lisa was wearing blue jean shorts and a
clean tee shirt. She described Lisa as being approximately 5'8", blonde curly hair,
brown eyes, and medium boned. We asked about Lisa's pre-clear folders and she
remembered that there were approximately seven of them big enough to fill a
banker's box. They were sent in April or May of 1996 to the Office Of Special Affairs
in Los Angeles after being packaged by her (Annie) and Judy Mercy. She did not
know who requested that the files be sent there. We asked if she had ever shredded
any files relating to Lisa McPherson and she stated yes. She indicated that she
shredded the Morton Plant Hospital "cram reports" (instructions to auditors to find
out what was wrong with Lisa). She only shredded the carbon copies and believed
the originals still existed. We asked about the caretaker reports and she stated that
they were not included. She helped shred de-briefs of the people interviewed after
Lisa's death. We asked where her reports went and she stated that they also went to
Los Angeles. She believed that, if anyone would know where all of the missing
reports were, it would be the Data Chief, Kathy O'Goerman, who works in the Office
Of Special Affairs International in Los Angeles. She indicated that she had discussed
the documents and daily reports regarding Lisa's case with Ben Shaw, a Church
representative.
The deposition with Annie Mora was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please see the
transcript for further details.
MONDAY, AUGUST 25, 1997
At 0930 hours, Agent Lee Strope, Assistant State Attorney Mark McGarry, and I
conducted a deposition with Debra Jean Cook.
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Offense Death Investigation Date of Report10/2/97
Debra Jean Cook, W/F, DOB X/61
Background: She resides at 551 N. Saturn Avenue, Clearwater, Florida. She joined
the Church of Scientology in X in 1976 after her brother got
her interested in it. She came to Clearwater in 1979 as staff and presently holds the
title of Captain of the FLAG Service Organization.
Involvement With Lisa McPherson: Debra was the top executive in charge of the
FLAG Service Organization at the time of Lisa's stay at the cabanas and was therefore
responsible for that area. During that time, Carolina Spatta was the Programs Chief
and Debra's boss but was physically located in Los Angeles. The first time she met
Lisa was when the AMC Publishing Company moved from Texas to Clearwater and
approximately ten people were touring the company. She also saw Lisa on a Friday
night in mid-September of 1995 and gave her a certificate when she became clear.
Alain Kartuzinski's boss would have been the Director Of Corrections at the time Lisa
was staying at the cabanas. We asked about the policy as far as Hubbard technology
was with dealing with a violent PTS3 type person. She indicated that there is no
policy for dealing with a violent PTS3. She went on to say that the policy has been
changed since the Lisa McPherson incident, and that the new policy is as follows:
THEY WILL NO LONGER DEAL WITH ANY VIOLENT PTS3 PERSONALITIES. THEY
WILL BE HANDLED BY PROPER MEDICAL AUTHORITIES. THERE WILL BE NO
MORE MEDICAL EXPERIENCE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HANDLE OR HOLD A
MEDICAL LIAISON OFFICE. IF A VIOLENT PTS3 PERSONALITY IS FOUND AT THE
CHURCH, THEY WILL BE TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. IF NEED BE, THEY WILL BE
SENT TO A PSYCHIATRIC WARD. According to Debra, this is quite a change in
Church policy and comes from the Captain of the FLAG Organization. We asked why
Brian Anderson was demoted from the position he held as being in charge of the
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Office Of Special Affairs, she stated that Brian was not sharp enough to be running a
section. She further stated that Alain Kartuzinski, Paul Kellerhals, Janice Johnson,
and Laura Arrunada were directly responsible for Lisa's case and anything that
occurred regarding Lisa.
The deposition with Debra Jean Cook was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please
see the transcript for further details.
At 1145 hours, a deposition was conducted with Janet Herring.
Janet Herring, W/F, DOB X/52
Background: In 1977, she was a public member of the Church of Scientology. In
1979, she came to Clearwater as staff. She is presently the Chief Officer of the FLAG
Service Organization directly under Debra Cook. At the time of Lisa's stay, Janet was
an executive in the FLAG Organization directly under Debra Cook. At the time of
Lisa's stay, Janet was also an executive in the organization. At the request of Arthur
Baxter, she secured the room Lisa was going to stay in at the cabanas. Arthur
indicated that Benetta Slaughter had called him. Janet called the front desk at one
point shortly after Lisa's stay to tell them Lisa would not be coming by to pay but
everything would be taken care of. We asked who was responsible for Lisa's stay and
she stated it was Alain Kartuzinski, who received updates from the caretakers and
anyone involved with security regarding Lisa's condition on a daily basis. We asked if
Alain could order who the MLO would be. She stated that he could and in fact did,
and that he requested it be Janis Johnson. At approximately 3:45 p.m. on 12/5/95,
she saw Janis Johnson in one of the areas of the Church and Janis looked pale and
upset. She asked Janis what was wrong and she told her "Lisa is doing worse and
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I'm going to take her to the hospital." Janis then added that Lisa had gotten
dehydrated and was losing water.
The deposition with Janet Herring was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please see
transcript for further details.
THURSDAY, AUGUST 28, 1997
FDLE Agent Lee Strope and I interviewed the following:
Cassidy Morgan, W/F, DOB X/74
Background: She resides at X,X, California. She became
involved with the Church of Scientology through a personality testing solicitation at
her apartment in X, California. She was involved with the Church from
February 1993 to May 1993. After doing the personality testing, she was invited to
the Church on Rosemary Road in X, where she was given a beginning course
for only $25. She completed the course and they told her she had done very well.
They wanted her to become part of the organization. She was solicited by the person
in charge of the organization, Randy Merrill. At that time, she was going through
tough times in her life and felt it was a way to improve it. Her mother and her met
with Randy Merrill, at which time her mother told him that she (Cassidy) was
suffering from diabetes and they were not to interfere with her treatment. Her
mother also told them there was to be no mind control or brainwashing. Cassidy had
to sign a waiver that she would not sue the Church or contact law enforcement in
reference to anything involving the Church. She took the next course, which her
mother paid $1,300 for her to take. The course consisted of sitting down with a
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person and holding on to some type of steel cans while staring at the person for
hours with no movement. The second part of this course was the same as the first
part except that she was not to make any movement whatsoever although the person
was talking to her, demeaning her, and touching her throughout the drill. The
person doing her auditing was a male but he had never made any type of sexual
advances toward her. She got sick with a sore throat and fever while taking the
course. The Church told her that she was sick because she needed to disassociate
with her father because he had caused her pain and suffering. She disassociated
herself with her father but did not recover or get better. The next instruction was
that she was to disassociate herself from her mother. She found this very difficult
since she and her mother were very close. The Church then took her to a sweat room
in the same building and started giving her all kinds of vitamins. She knew this was
not the right treatment for her since she had diabetes. She hid in the bathroom and
called her doctor and then her mother. Her mother came and picked her up and
immediately drove her to the hospital. She was hospitalized for over a week because
of pneumonia and complications from diabetes. Her mother attempted to get a
refund of the $1,300 from the Church and had a lot of difficulty. Her mother finally
got the money back after writing several complaint letters about the Church to the
California Legislature. At one time, she went to a chiropractor, who gave her
vitamins and tried to get her to join the Church. The sweat room she was placed in
at the Church was in the left rear portion of the building and had a concrete floor,
redwood walls, and shelves full of vitamins. She was put on the E-Meter and asked
for hours whether or not she was a law enforcement officer or a lawyer. She was told
that Scientology is a philosophy and not a religion and they then started talking
thetans to her. They indicated over and over that medical doctors and psychiatrists
are evil and attempt too get into your head. She has had no further contact with the
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Church there but provided me with a letter her mother received recently telling them
about a large open house they were having in San Jose.
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2, 1997
FDLE Agent Lee Strope and I conducted an interview with Kay Proctor.
Kay Proctor
Background: She resides at X, X, phone
X. She worked at AMC Publishing in Clearwater as a sales person with
Lisa McPherson. Kay left Clearwater in May of 1995 before Lisa showed any signs of
having problems. She was not close to Lisa because she had a small child and their
social lives did not mix. When she left Clearwater in May of 1995, she moved to
X Dakota to start up a business. The business is now being run by other
people and she now resides in Oregon with her husband, who drives a tractor trailer.
She had no information to supply regarding the Lisa McPherson case as she left
before any trouble began.
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 1997
FDLE Agent Lee Strope, Assistant State Attorney Mark McGarry, and I conducted a
deposition with Tana Marafino.
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Tana Marafino, W/F, DOB X/43
Background: She resides at X, Clearwater, Florida. She is the
Executive Director of Housekeeping at the Ft. Harrison Hotel and was in charge of
getting the rooms in the cabana area cleaned. She moved here from X New
York, where she was involved with the Church. She has been a staff member in
Clearwater since December of 1985 and has held posts as Ethics Officer in 1986,
Executive of Division One For Hiring & Training, and also Super Cargo in December
1996.
Involvement With Lisa McPherson: She advised that she really had nothing to do
with Lisa in the room at the cabanas, and that she could only give information on the
rooms and services provided. Since the Church charges in excess of $100 a day for
the cabana rooms, we asked if she had ever known the room charge to be written off
and she stated no. We asked about Room 174 and she stated that it was just a
normal room. I advised her that, when detectives were able to inspect the room the
day after Lisa's death, they found a very neat and clean room with one bed in it and
fruit and fresh water on the dresser. She thought that was unusual because the
rooms in that area usually contain two beds and fruit and water were only placed in
the executive rooms.
The deposition with Tana Marafino was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please see
transcript for further details.
At 1035 hours, we conducted a deposition with Humberto Fontana.
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Humberto Fontana, W/M, DOBX/56
Background: He resides at X, Clearwater, Florida. He joined
the Church inX in 1987 as staff. He then moved to X. In October of
1988, he moved to Clearwater and held the title of Director Of Social Reform during
the time of Lisa's stay.
Involvement With Lisa McPherson: Humberto responded to Morton Plant Hospital
the day that Lisa had her car accident due to the fact he was the Social Reform
Officer and was responsible for finding a reform for people who broke ethics. This
meant that, if they broke the rules, he would be the one who told them about what
rule they had broken and ways they could reform. He was identified by hospital
employees at Morton Plant Hospital as being at the hospital and showing documents
that Scientologists do not believe in psychiatric doctors and normal medical
psychiatric treatment. We asked if he had any psychiatric training and he stated no.
We asked if Lisa's case was a normal case and he stated no. He stated that he just
happened to come into the office on the day of Lisa's accident and was sent to Morton
Plant Hospital. However, he could not remember who told him to go. During that
time, he answered to Brian Anderson, who was in charge of the Office Of Special
Affairs. After Lisa's death, he eventually became in charge of the Office Of Special
Affairs in Clearwater. We asked if he knew his wife, Judy Fontana, had sent Lisa's
pre-clear files to Los Angeles, he stated no (even though he was in charge). In
November of 1996, Ben Shaw arrived from Los Angeles and assumed his post as
Commanding Office of the Office Of Special Affairs. He is now back at his old job as
Social Reform Officer. We asked if Judy Goldsberry-Weber had told him on more
than one occasion that Lisa was not being handled correctly. He stated yes, but that
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"Judy does a lot of talking and nobody listens to her." We asked if an attorney could
look in Lisa's pre-clear files, he stated yes.
The deposition with Humberto Fontana was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please
see transcript for further details.
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1997
FDLE Agent Strope, Assistant State Attorney Mark McGarry, and I conducted a
deposition with Judy Fontana.
Judy Fontana
Background: She originally got involved with the Church in X Arizona in
1978. In August of 1981, she was involved in WISE (Scientology business
organization). On September 10, 1984, she went to the Office Of Special Affairs to
assist in gathering legal information for the Church attorneys.
Involvement With Lisa McPherson: Judy worked in the Office Of Special Affairs at
the time of Lisa's stay at the cabanas. She did not know Lisa before the day of Lisa's
car accident in November of 1995. She was told by Paul Kellerhals after that incident
that Lisa was not eating or sleeping. She was unsure about what the purpose of
Lisa's stay at the cabanas was. Two weeks after Lisa arrived at the cabanas, she was
again advised that Lisa was not eating, drinking, or sleeping. She was told by Paul
Kellerhals to make sure that Lisa was getting what she needed at the cabanas. We
asked if she had any conversations with Judy Goldsberry-Weber, she stated no. She
stated that she told Paul Kellerhals to contact a doctor if Lisa would not eat, drink, or
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sleep. She remembered that, approximately one week before Lisa's death, Paul
Kellerhals contacted Dr. Minkoff. An audit was done on Lisa by Jane Jentch
sometime after Lisa's death. She thought that, in January of 1996, Lisa's pre-clear
folders were sent to the Office Of Special Affairs in Los Angeles by Annie Mora but
she could not be sure. She indicated that the pre-clear folders may have been in her
office, but that she was not sure of that either. She saw written reports on the Lisa
incident from the following people:
Alain Kartuzinski
Laura Arrunada
Janis Johnson
Paul Greenwood
Judy remembered seeing reports of the de-briefings of certain people after the
interviews the "cops" had with the above people. In March, April, or May of 1996,
Annie Mora had a general file about 2" thick and had handed them over to Attorney
Bob Johnson, the attorney for the Church. We asked if she told Annie Mora to send
Lisa's pre-clear files to Los Angeles and she stated no. We asked if she had looked at
the 2" thick file that went to Attorney Bob Johnson, she stated that that she had and
they were handwritten de-briefs, Annie Mora's report, and caretaker reports. In
March of 1997, she saw a report from Marcus Corino. We asked if she knew
anything about Janis Johnson's background, she stated that she knew Janis was a
medical doctor someplace other than Florida.
The deposition with Judy Fontana was transcribed by a Court Reporter, please see
the transcript for further details.
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THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1997
FDLE Agent Lee Strope, Assistant State Attorney Mark McGarry, and I conducted a
deposition with Gloria Cruz. She was accompanied by her attorney, Ron Cacciatore.
Gloria Cruz, W/F, BOB X/72
Background: She resides at X,, Florida with David and
Benetta Slaughter. She also lived with them in Dallas, Texas. She moved to
Clearwater with the AMC Publishing Company in 1993. She is not a staff member at
the Church but works at AMC Publishing Company. We asked how far she had gone
in the Church, her attorney claimed a privilege of religious freedom and argued a
relevancy to answering that question.
Involvement with Lisa McPherson: She worked at AMC Publishing with Lisa
McPherson and they became friends. She eventually moved into the apartment with
Lisa. We asked who was paying the extra rent the landlord said was being paid for
the extra person in the apartment, she stated that she did not know. We asked
whose suggestion it was to move into the apartment, she stated that it was Bennetta
Slaughter's. The AMC Publishing Company uses Scientology technology in their
business practices. Lisa was missing from work during July and August of 1995 and
all Gloria knew was that she had gone to stay at the Church for a while. The last
time she saw Lisa was prior to Lisa's car accident. She described Lisa as being
approximately 5'8" to 6', dirty blonde hair, 150 lbs., and very healthy looking.
The deposition with Gloria Cruz was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please see the
transcript for further details.
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THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 1997
FDLE Agent Lee Strope, Assistant State Attorney Mark McGarry, and I conducted a
deposition with Susanne Reich.
Susanne Reich, W/F
Background: She resides at X, Clearwater, Florida. She is
Deputy Director Of Processing at the Church at this time. She has reached the level
of OT4 and has no medical training.
Involvement with Lisa McPherson: She met Lisa in the summer of 1994. Alain
Kartuzinski asked her to give Lisa a note from him. She did not know what the note
said but stated that Lisa started acting very differently after she read it. The only day
she did a watch was November 20, 1995 and Lisa was not allowed to leave the room.
She sat by the door to make sure Lisa did not leave. Alain Kartuzinski was working
intensively on Lisa's pre-clear folders on the morning of November 19, 1995. She
described Lisa's pre-clear folders as possibly being 20-30 folders three to four inches
thick. The top of the reports showed a title of SEN C/S for senior case supervisor,
which was Alain Kartuzinski. She remembered Susanne Schnurrenberger watching
Lisa for six to eight weeks during the summer of 1995. That watch was done at
Lisa's house and on the ninth floor of the Ft. Harrison Hotel. She wrote the report
because Main Kartuzinski wanted to know what was going on with Lisa. She never
called Lisa's family to let them know what was going on with her. She attempted to
talk to Janis Johnson about Lisa but Janis would not tell her anything. We asked
about Lisa's condition on November 20, 1995. She stated that Lisa was in good
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physical condition and very strong. One security guard was outside of Lisa's room
during the time she conducted the watch.
The deposition with Susanne Reich was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please see
transcript for further details.
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, 1997
FDLE Agent Lee Strope, Assistant State Attorney Mark McGarry, and I interviewed
Dr. Jeannie Decuypcr.
Jeannie Decuyper, W/F, DOB X/49
Background: She is presently a chiropractor in Clearwater and has an office at X. She has been involved with the Church since 1980. She
received her B.A. Degree in Sociology at at X University in 1973 and
completed her studies at X in Iowa in 1979. She has been in Clearwater
since 1991 and was involved with the Church in X in 1986. She is an OT8
and is a public member. She has never been on staff.
Involvement With Lisa McPherson: She had been treating Lisa since August of
1994 for back problems, dizzy spells, and problems with salt, and came to her for at
least 20-30 sessions. Through the tests she conducted, she diagnosed Lisa as having
salt and potassium problems. She was called to Morton Plant Hospital by Benetta
Slaughter to go see Lisa when she had her accident. She stayed with Lisa the entire
time at the hospital and Lisa never asked in her presence to leave or to go to the
Church. She described Lisa at the time of her hospital stay as being approximately
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5'8", 140 lbs., possibly a little thinner than usual. She turned over copies of Lisa's
medical files to us.
The deposition with Jeannie Decuyper was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please
see transcript for further details.
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1997
Det. Carrasquillo, Assistant State Attorney Mark McGarry, and I conducted a
deposition with Brenda Gayle Hubert. She was accompanied by her attorney, Ron
Cacciatore.
Brenda Gail Hubert, W/F, BOB X/50
Background: She has been involved with the Church for approximately 20-25 years.
She first became involved with the Church in X, where she worked for
AMC Publishing. We asked about her position in the Church and her attorney
objected due to religious freedom and irrelevancy. She indicated that, at one time,
she held the post in the Church of LRH Com, an executive position. She was a friend
of Lisa's and her co-worker at AMC Publishing. She knew Lisa from Dallas, Texas
and they worked together at Atlantic Financial in Dallas in the late 1980's. She
moved here with AMC Publishing Company in 1993 along with Lisa. She wrote a
report to the case supervisor regarding Lisa's conduct at a convention they attended
just prior to Lisa's accident on November 18, 1995. She wanted to make it clear
through her attorney that the report that has been supplied by the Church has
been altered. She stated that the report now has the top section missing and
she did not do It. She has done auditing regarding Lisa but no sec check.
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The deposition with Brenda Hubert was transcribed by a Court Reporter. Please see
transcript for further details.
Ofc. Reporting Det. Sgt. Wayne Andrews/elg ID No. 603
Case Status Active Date Cleared
Clearance Type Exception Type
1. Arrest 1. Extradition declined 3. Death of Offender
Adult Juvenile 2. AR of primary offense, 4. V/W refused to cooperate
2. Exceptional secondary offense, 5. Prosecution declined
3. Unfounded w/o prosecution 6. Juv/No Custody
Ofc. Reviewing Date SA0 Info
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