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A.
For instance, usually —— oh, gosh, I can’t even
say usually.
Q.
Was Lisa an OT? 
A.
To my understanding, she wasn’t. 
Q.
Okay. She was a Clear? 
A.
I don’t know specifically -— yes, exactly, she
just attested to Clear. 
 
Q.
Okay.  And define Clear for me, again, realizing
your knowledge may
not be as perfect as others in the
Church.
A. Yeah, my --
 
 Q. I’m trying to find out what folders we’re talking
about here and the differences. 
 
A.
Uh-huh. I can help you with that one, but let me
answer your question first.
S
A Clear is an individual who is at cause over all
manner of things in relation to themselves.
 
Q.
You use that phrase “at cause.” What does that
mean in —- in our kind of English instead of in Scientology
English? 
A.
It means they would do nothing that could be
countersurvival to themselves, in common ordinary language.
A Clear would not wander out in the middle of traffic on a
bad day, heavy traffic, and put themselves in danger.
 
Q.
So a Clear also shouldn’t be walking down the

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