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you to stop the -- the 24-hour added help -- security
help outside of the room?

A.	I forget when this was, but maybe halfway

through the whole matter Paul Kellerhals and I had a --
had a conversation and it seemed to us that it was
quiet, there was no particular concern on our part for
her being a danger to herself or anybody else, so we
discussed well, if she -- if that’s okay, then we don’t
need to have the security detail whatsoever, so he told
me, “Well, if that’s the case, we’ll just —- we’ll just
pull the guard of f,” and so we did.

Now, what day that was I don’t remember, but I
think it was about a week —— a week before --

Q.	Are you privy to the -- to the

communication -- I mean, who communicated that to you
or him, the information that she’s ——

A.	That she was ——

Q.	Was that coming from Mr. Kartuzinski or from

the caretakers or do you know?

A.	I can guess this, that Alain talked to Paul.

That’s what I can guess.

Q.	Okay. Now, in any of your conversations with

Mr. Kartuzinski, did you ever get the impression that
he had been down there to see Lisa, or was this a hands
of f, I’m gonna let somebody else watch her and then

KANABAY COURT REPORTERS