Lisa McPherson Files - Interview of Brian Rakestraw
This is an interview
with Brian Rakestraw.
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION
FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158
Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/10/97
Location 644 Pierce Street Orig Incident Date 12/6/95
Victim Lisa McPherson VI Prosecute Yes No
Investigator Det. Jorge Carrasquillo
Previous Status Active
Subject None
Impound Inventory None
Todays date is 4/10/97. The time is 1555. This is an interview with Brian Robert
Rakestraw concerning the Lisa McPherson investigation. Present during the
interview are Attorney Ronald Cacciatore, Det. James Little, and myself, Det. Jorge
Carrasquillo.
Det. Carrasquillo: For identification purposes Brian, would you please state your
full name...your full legal name...spell it...and also give me
your date of birth and social security number. Then your home
address...home phone number...work...business name...work
address and...and work number.
Rakestraw: Okay. So its Brian Robert Rakestraw...last name is R A K E S
T R A W. Address is XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX, Clearwater,
Florida 34625. Place of work is Exectech... and it's located at
X X, Florida. Date of
birth is X/XX/XX. And Social Security is #XXX-XX-XXXX.
Det. Carrasquillo: Can you give me your work phone number?
Rakestraw: Work phone number is X
Det. Carrasquillo: And would you please spellX for my secretary?
Rakestraw: Sure. Its X...all one word.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. I understand you were working for AMC Publishing at
one time.
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: Can you tell me when you were employed by them?
Rakestraw: From January 1st of 95...uh...to October of 96.
Det. Carrasquillo: And what was your position there?
Rakestraw: Umm...over...I was over all the sales.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you were a supervisor?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did Lisa work for you?
Rakestraw: Yeah. At...at certain times in there she did...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did Katie Chamberlain also work for you? Were you
over Katie Chamberlain?
Rakestraw: For a little bit. When...when Katie was in sales, she was.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you came in specifically for that position. And what
was the title of...of your...?
Rakestraw: Umm... kind've like VP Sales.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you were Vice President of Sales?
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And it was your job to make sure that all the sales went
on...everybody was active...all the...
Rakestraw: Yeah, it was my job to just make sure that the sales...you
know...we were selling our services.
Det. Carrasquillo: Why don't you give me a description of what you were doing
over there.
Rakestraw: Umm...we...we had...you may have heard of some of this
before...but I mean...the...the company sells card
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Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/10/97
packs...right...it's an advertising medium. And so we did that
and we also had an area that sold lists...like rented lists. So
there's one area which sold this pack advertisement. Have you
ever seen the Val Packs?
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Rakestraw: I mean I kinda have the idea that you've heard this 20 times
before, so stop me if you want to.
Det. Carrasquillo: No...no...because sometimes somebody can explain it crystal
clear...
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And somebody can't. So I...
Rakestraw: Sure. Go for it?
Det. Carrasquillo: Go for it.
Rakestraw: Okay. You...you get the Val Packs in the mail sometimes...you
know...they've go like 20 or 30 cards in it...that's the main
product that AMC sells. And so different people out there
would like say yeah, I want to run a card in there and they
would pay for it. And it's like a thousand dollars or something
to run a card in there. And you...you get so many cards and
the packs filled and it can be mailed. But anyway...so there's
many people...many sales reps that are in charge of like calling
up and presenting it and saying let me tell you about our
wares and would you like to buy this? And that was one
area. And then another area was renting names. This is all
the insurance business by the way.
Det. Carrasquillo: What do you mean renting names?
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Rakestraw: You know...like you could call up and say I want to get a list of
all the agents in Florida or I want to get a list of all the agents
in California. I want to get a list of all the agents in Texas.
We...you know...at AMC there was just...it was a big resource
to have a lot of names...you know...because that's really what
you're doing...you're mailing out. So then just picture...we've
got the sales area that handles the pack, which is this val
pack...and then another area that sells the renting of names.
Umm...okay...my memory fails me...you know. It seems like
there was another...
Det. Carrasquillo: A magazine.
Rakestraw: Magazine.
Det. Carrasquillo: Magazine.
Rakestraw: Right...right. And so there was another one...it was the
magazine. And so I was over all of them to make sure that the
sales were happening.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you were in a pyramid. You were here. And then the
person that was running the magazines...
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo; The person running the sales packs and the person running
the lists. And they all reported to you.
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. What does AMC stand for?
Rakestraw: Oh God...you know...I think I knew it at one time but I don't
remember...I don't remember...
Det. Carrasquillo: I just...
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Rakestraw: I mean A in....Agents Market Pack is the...the name of the
pack that goes out...the 30 or 40 cards or whatever. It says
right on there Agents Market Pack. I...I know I asked the
question before but I don't remember.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So let me ask you because you would have a good
picture of her finances. We're talking about finances. Let me
flip to that right now. When Lisa was working there, my
understanding...and correct me if I'm wrong...was she was
your top sales person.
Rakestraw: Yeah...yeah, I think so. Uh...I...I hesitate only because...you
know...she had been...she was the top sales person up there
and...yeah, she was...she definitely was.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Can you describe the job that Lisa was performing for
me? I mean in detail what did she do when she came in in the
morning going down to she went home?
Rakestraw: Sure...no problem. But could you help me a little bit here. I
...you've just...you've got to orient me a little bit on like...
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: What is the...what do these questions have to do with
whatever?
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, I'm trying to find out what was generating stress in Lisa's
life...if it was her job...because she...you know...she had a
mental breakdown.
Rakestraw: Yeah, I surmised.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right. And that...we're trying to figure out what caused it.
Could it have been something she was doing in her everyday
routine? Was it a...a...a boyfriend or a relationship...was it a
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personal relationship? So that's why I'm asking these
questions. Was it a financial problem that...that triggered it
on?
Rakestraw: Okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: We're...we're trying to get background on Lisa.
Rakestraw: Okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: And that's why I'm asking you these questions.
Rakestraw: Okay, fair enough. Can...what was it again?
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. I want to know what her job description was...you
know...what did she actually do when she walked in the
door...what it entailed every day.
Rakestraw: Umm....and this would go for all the sales reps that were in
that area, right?
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Rakestraw: There was like 5 or 6 of them...uhh...it would consist
of...I don't know if you've ever seen it, but nowadays the
computers are...the software that's around is really good...it
can keep track of names.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Rakestraw: There's a lot of software that...like does name tracking or
whatever. So she would just...like any of the other ones, she
would like have her list of people she was gonna call for the
day...based on who she talked to the week before...whoever
was interested. And she'd call them up and just say is so and
so available? Or so and so would answer the phone and she
would say...you know I'd like to tell you about...I'd like to
continue our discussion from before or did you find out if
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you're gonna...you know...run your ad again this time? And
that was pretty much it...I mean...
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Well, my understanding was that you guys had the
sales meeting in the morning and you got together and you
talked about...plotted out or had the day's strategy laid out. Is
that correct?
Rakestraw: Umm...
Det. Carrasquillo: Or did you just come in...right through the door...and get on
the phone with somebody and make a phone call?
Rakestraw: They'd...they'd just get on...you know...they'd get on the phone.
I mean...I'm trying to think...at different times maybe there
might've been meetings at 5:00 or something. But no, for the
most...for the most part it was just get on the phone and start.
Det. Carrasquillo: So basically when she walked in the door, she would get on the
phone and start making phone calls and try and sell the
product, which was...
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: The sales pack.
Rakestraw: With the pack...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: 200 to 300 phone calls a day?
Rakestraw: No...no...no...no. Umm... maybe 30 or 40...something like that.
And the presentations...just to kinda get an idea...the object
was like present it because nobody's gonna buy anything
unless you like present it. so, you kinda...you kinda try and
keep an idea of...of how many presentations they did per day.
And...you know...if they were doing 5 or 6 or 7 or something
like that, that would be...that would be good.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Was a presentation off a script or did they ad lib?
Rakestraw: Ad libbed for sure. I mean on some of these brand names
there's a script, but Lisa was so good at what she did she
could've wrote the script.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Because my understanding...this is telemarketing,
right...what she was doing basically?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Usually in telemarketing they've got a script that they follow to
point them in the right direction.
Rakestraw: Yeah, I think so...uh...I...yeah. But like somebody brand new,
they don't know what to say. But this isn't like telemarketing.
I'm not saying I know particularly what it is, but I get the idea
tel...real telemarketing is like 500 calls a day.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Rakestraw: But that wasn't like this. This was...this is not like that...you
know. It's like 30 or 40 calls a day...8 presentations...and
make a couple of sales.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Now, she got paid on commission...correct?
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: She...she was not a salary employee?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: So she...do you know...
Rakestraw: At least...I can at least say that the time...during the time I was
there...you know...
Det. Carrasquillo: That's...that's what we're talking about...
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: The time you were there.
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Rakestraw: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know what she was paid? Was she paid 10%
commission? Was she paid....?
Rakestraw: 15.
Det. Carrasquillo: 15 at that time?
Rakestraw: Right. Oh no...it varied...it varied I think depending on some
bonuses. Like if...if the pack was full...you know...if you
picture it, this is all business and viability. If the pack is thick
enough...you know...well then it's good...there's money to
pay...there's a bonus. So if the pack was full, then...then it
was 15%.
Det. Carrasquillo: And again....I want to make sure I understand because I've had
this explained to me before and I...I want to make sure I
understand it.
Rakestraw: Sure.
Det. Carrasquillo: The packs were sold according to the size of the state. It...it'd
be like New York you would...to qualify for the bonus you'd
have to sell like five packs where as Delaware you might only
have to sell one pack. Is that correct?
Rakestraw: Fine...yeah, that's kinda the concept but use the word cards
because each one has a card.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: And so in one state there might be 20 cards.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: In another state you maybe have to have 30 cards.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And...and now Ron and I and Jim are working and we're
working the same state. And if we sell...if we combine together
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and sell those 30 cards in a pack, we would reach that goal of
one pack. But if we were shy of those 30 cards, we would not
reach the goals and we would not get the commission?
Rakestraw: Well, you wouldn't get the bonus.
Det. Carrasquillo: You wouldn't get the bonus?
Rakestraw: See, you can make a note of like it was 10%.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: 10% no matter what. And it was an extra 5%.
Det. Carrasquillo: For the bonus?
Rakestraw: For the bonus.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So she had...was...was that a lot of stress? Because I'm
not a good sales person I guess. That would eat me up.
Rakestraw: You know, stress is such a weird thing. And I'll...I'11 just give
you my viewpoint.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: Since you're asking me. I mean sales is not for everybody. It's
not necessarily easy. And I think the most capable people
are...are...end up in sales because you really have to be able to
talk to people...you have to be able to handle them when they
hang up the phone...you have to be able to communicate really
well to get your point across. And so...you know...sales people
run themselves very hard...are hard...hard on themselves. And
why one person like gets down at the end of the day and the
other isn't for the same performance is like that's just who they
are. Umm... but stress...I don't know. I mean sales
people...it's...it's a stressful area I think...sales is...because its
like...you know...if you don't sell, like nobody gets paid. So it's
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like...and...and if you don't...if you...if you don't like it, you
shouldn't be there. I mean there were sales people that would
like come in and say I can't do this...I don't want to do this.
You know...it's like whatever their words would be...too much
pressure...to much of this....too much of that...I don't want to
do it...so...
Det. Carrasquillo: Well...
Rakestraw: I don't know if that answers your question though.
Det. Carrasquillo: Yeah, it....it...and...and it does. Specifically Lisa, she was able
to handle...in your opinion...from your observation...?
Rakestraw: Oh yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: From your observations she was able to handle a lot of
stress...the...the rejections on the phone and...
Rakestraw: Oh yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And when...and when her sales dropped and she wasn't
making the same amount of money, how did she handle that?
Rakestraw: .....I don't know that she did make less money. Maybe she
was selling all the time. But like...if you go like from a week to
a week or whatever...if she had a bad week, she would just like
figure out how to have a good week the next week.
Det. Carrasquillo: And I think Katie told me that she was in a slump there for a
while...May or June or July.
Rakestraw: Do you remember which year?
Det. Carrasquillo: 95.
Rakestraw: 95...yeah....I don't know.
Det. Carrasquillo: She took some time off?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
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Det. Carrasquillo: During that period?
Rakestraw: Yeah, I think so.
Det. Carrasquillo: And her sales were suff...suffering.
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: How did she handle that? What was her personality like?
Rakestraw: From finding...just that "I'm gonna make it go right." Like "I'm
gonna just...I'm gonna work at this like a real"...You know...is
words to describe it...you know. "can do."
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Do you know if she ever asked the company for an
advancement in pay?
Rakestraw: I don't know....never went through me.
Det. Carrasquillo: She never asked you?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: It had to go through you because you were over that
department?
Rakestraw: It should...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. What other responsibilities did Lisa have there?
Rakestraw: That was it...that was it. I mean the selling of the card packs.
Now she also was selling a magazine too. But when she was
selling the magazine, it's the same thing.
Det. Carrasquillo: That didn't work...she wanted to like be a supervisor in that
division and that didn't pan out.
Rakestraw: Yeah. It's not that it didn't pan out. Eventually the magazine
didn't pan out.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. One more time in your words, tell me what her pay
structure was like so I can understand it. And then we'll move
on from there.
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Rakestraw: Sure. So picture that the...the... the job of the sales
rep...instead of selling a car or whatever it was...was to sell a
...a piece of paper. I mean it's like...it's like about this big and
it's just got...
Det. Carrasquillo: An index card.
Rakestraw: Yeah, exactly. that's what it is. Uh...and her job...it's an ad.
Instead of running like a...an ad in the...in a
magazine...uh...which is easier to understand...it's like you
just pay an X number of dollars to run this ad. It was the
same concept but they would just run it in a card. And people
would get this card...this pack at home, right...
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Rakestraw: And then some of them would just throw it away I'm sure...you
know...because they're getting a lot of them. But some would
open it up and they'd just go through it and look and say "I like
that one"...then going through it "And I like that one". And
then they'd pick these and they'd call those people who paid to
have that in there.
Det. Carrasquilio: Okay. And then is that when Lisa would get her money?
Rakestraw: Lisa would get paid to...
Det. Carrasquillo: When...when...when actually the product was sold and people
called the company?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Or when it was delivered into that person's house?
Rakestraw: No, it's even a little bit different.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Explain that to me.
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Rakestraw: Yeah. It would be the same as a magazine. If IBM is running
a...is gonna run an ad in Time Magazine........they're gonna
say "I want to run it" and they're gonna pay for it...I don't know
what it is...$100,000 or whatever it is. But the...the sales rep's
job is to...to have IBM order that. As soon as IBM pays to run
that...as soon as the money's in, then the sales rep gets paid.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: Same thing.
Det. Carrasquillo: So as soon as AMC Publishing received the check from that
client for that pack, then the commission was credited to...to
the sales rep...any sales rep.
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And as far as you knew, she was not having any
financial problems?
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: She had no other responsibilities there.
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: What about the Winter Wonderland project? Wasn't that her
responsibility also for...on behalf of AMC?
Rakestraw: Well, as far as I know, that's all volunteer work. And...you
know...that's...it...it had nothing to do with AMC. Benetta was
involved with it...Benetta Slaughter was involved with it...
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: Yeah...but all that stuff was like voluntary...you know do you
want to do it?...which I know Lisa was doing.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And you did not work with AMC in Dallas...correct?
Rakestraw: Right.
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Det. Carrasquillo: You did not come from Dallas. Did you socialize with Lisa?
Rakestraw: No...no.
Det. Carrasquillo: Now you as a supervisor...if the sales reps...like when Lisa
went through a slump there and she wasn't as productive
she normally was....did that affect your pay?
Rakestraw: Uh...I guess it would...yeah... because I was on commission.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So...and it would affect Katie Chamberlain's pay also?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: But Katie was Lisa's supervisor?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: I thought Katie said she was her supervisor. Maybe it was
after....was Katie working for you...because my
understanding...let's...let's go over it again to make sure I'm
correct. You're the Vice President. Underneath you is the
department head for the magazines, the department head for
the lists, and the department head for the card packs.
Rakestraw: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Who was the department head for the card packs at the time?
Rakestraw: Dee Dee...Dee Dee Cage. Is that who you're thinking of when
you say Katie?
Det. Carrasquillo: Yes.
Rakestraw: Okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: Thank you very...
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: It's Dee Dee Cage and not Katie Chamberlain.
Rakestraw: Correct.
Det. Carrasquillo: Who was the department head.
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Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: So that was Lisa's immediate supervisor?
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Would it affect Dee Dee Cage's pay when...when this...?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: No? But it would affect yours?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Explain that one.
Rakestraw: Uh...I was set up on commission and Dee Dee was not. She
was salary.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Do you ever know if...if Dee Dee Cage ever had to
discipline Lisa?
Rakestraw: I don't know what you mean by discipline.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, let's say she caught her...improper conduct on the phone
with a client and that she chewed her out or had to write her
up or something like that....
Rakestraw: Yeah. Umm...I don't know. I mean if...if...if...here's how it
would go...I mean if anybody saw anybody or if I did...if you see
somebody doing something that's not quite right, you would
just say no, let me show you how you should handle
that...you know. But that would be the extent of it.
Det. Carrasquillo: So there was nothing...I'm wondering if maybe she was
disciplined and that might have triggered part of her episode.
Rakestraw: No...no. And besides, it's like...it's...whatever...whatever it was
was like the same every week because...you know...we would
want to know like in sales...like we knew exactly what we sold
for the week.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Rakestraw: And if it wasn't so good, it was like...you know...we'd do
something about it right then. So it wasn't like something done
in one day. It was like...it was done the same every week.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. A couple more that we need to go through here.
Rakestraw: Sure.
Det. Carrasquillo: You...did you have a daily contact with Lisa?
Rakestraw: Umm...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And...and during that time...January 1st 95 through December
of 95....what was her emotional state of being? Like would it
fluctuate?
Rakestraw: Yeah...yeah...it would.
Det. Carrasquillo: You want to expound on that?
Rakestraw: I...you know...I don't even know what to tell you...I mean like
she'd have good days...good days and bad days. Like she was
gone for a while...then she'd come back and she was doing fine.
And she was really doing great...you know. Of course I'm not
giving you dates here. It's been all general...you know. But it's
like from the time I was there. She was fine and then she was
gone for a while. And then she came back and she was doing
great. And then I think...I have to get my dates straight...
Det. Carrasquillo: Well let me help you with that. We know she took a leave of
absence around May or June.
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Is that when you're talking about she was gone for a while?
Rakestraw: Yeah...yeah.
bet. Carrasquillo: Do you know why she took that leave of absence?
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Rakestraw: Yeah, she just wasn't doing well and she wanted to like...I don't
......collect her thoughts and get it straight.
Det. Carrasquillo: And when you say wasn't doing well....in...in her personal
life?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Or in sales? Were there sales problems also?
Rakestraw: This...she was doing the magazine at that time I think. And it
was...she was doing okay there. I think it was more just
personal.
Det. Carrasquillo: Boyfriend problems?
Rakestraw: I don't have a clue to tell you the truth because I didn't get into
it.
Det. Carrasquillo: You're the boss and no one ever tells the boss anything.
Rakestraw: Yeah...right. And if they do too much, its like I'm not here to
hear it.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you didn't know if she just...all you knew she was on a leave
of absence?
Rakestraw: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: And who told you that?
Rakestraw: Well I did...I knew she was gone.
Det. Carrasquillo: But did Benetta tell you that or did Dave tell you that?
Rakestraw: That she was gone?
Det. Carrasquillo: That she was gone.
Rakestraw: No...I mean...
Det. Carrasquillo: She came up to you and said I'm taking some time off.
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
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Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know anything about her isolation starting November
18, 1995 until her death December 5, 1995?
Rakestraw: No...not a...
Det. Carrasquillo: Not a thing?
Rakestraw: Not a thing.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did anyone ever explain to you why Lisa was not at the office
during that time period?
Rakestraw: No. I mean I knew that she was at the Ft. Harrison but I didn't
know why.
Det. Carrasquillo: How did you know she was at the Ft. Harrison?
Rakestraw: Because...I don't know how I was told...I think Benetta told me.
Det. Carrasquillo: But didn't tell you why?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did any...did you, yourself, or any co-workers go down
to visit her during that time?
Rakestraw: Uh Uh. Well, I can't...I don't know about others. I know I
didn't and I don't know anybody else who did.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Do you know anything about the circumstances
surrounding Gloria Cruz living with Lisa?
Rakestraw: Not really...Uh Uh...no.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: I guess I knew that they were living together, but that's all I
knew.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you remember your last contact with Lisa prior to her
death?
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Rakestraw: Yeah. We were at a convention in Orlando and...I don't
remember what the last contact was but it was whatever
morning it was that they were...they drove back. She and
Brenda drove back on Friday I think it was.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you were out at the N.A.I.L.B.A. Convention with
her?
Rakestraw: Yeah, N.A.I.L.B.A...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you went on what date?
Rakestraw: Did I go there?
Det. Carrasquillo: Yeah, what day did you go there on?
Rakestraw: Wednesday maybe.
Det. Carrasquillo: It was the 15th, 16th, and 17th....15th being a Wednesday.
Rakestraw: Wednesday...yes, a Wednesday.
Det. Carrasquillo: And who did you drive out there...did you drive out there with
Lisa?
Rakestraw: No...with Craig...Craig Burton.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. What was her behavior like at the convention?
Rakestraw: Lisa's?
Det. Carrasquillo: Yes.
Rakestraw: Umm...it was...you know its funny looking back on
hindsight...but at the time that I was there, it was like she was
just being more...she was...Lisa...you... again you've probably
heard many things of what Lisa was like...but she...I'll give you
mine...whatever. She was very outgoing. You know...she was
like...in a good way though...very...you know...friendly...very
nice...made friends really easy. She wasn't...that's why she
was so great at sales. No backoff on meeting people or talking
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met her you'd just...you know...after a few minutes you'd love
her because...I don't know...she was just like that. But...so
you never know with Lisa really that...you know... how would
you compare that she was being odd because she was always
so outgoing. But in hindsight it was she was a little bit more
outgoing.
Det. Carrasquillo: Forget about hindsight for now. While you were there....
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Was her behavior odd and peculiar to you?
Rakestraw: Yes.
Det. Carrasquillo: Not hindsight.
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: While you were there in 1995.
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: What was....
Rakestraw: 96.
Det. Carrasquillo: 95....November of 95.
Rakestraw: 95...sorry.
Det. Carrasquillo: What was peculiar about it or odd about her behavior?
Rakestraw: Just that... like it was a little bit more outgoing than normal.
Like...oh...I don't know...when...at breakfast...I think it was
Friday morning...they had breakfast and then she was
like...she was like almost asking me like for...for directions to
her room in the hotel. And I thought she was kidding...you
know. I said Lisa, it's down there and it's up the elevator.
And I...you know...I ...I just thought...I thought it was
odd...you know...but..
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And I...you know...I...I just thought...I thought it was
odd...you know...but..
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you remember Benetta Slaughter and Franz Reiter coming
out there?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: When did they come out there?
Rakestraw: I think they came out Thursday and they didn't...they just left
Thursday night.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Was there any odd behavior when they were there on
Lisa's part that you noticed?
Rakestraw: Umm...I think it was the same...you know...I mean whatever
was odd was odd. It was kind of funny though. It was hard to
tell because at one moment she was like...it's not like a big up
and down thing but it's like yeah, I'm gonna get the...
Because we're selling by the way...you know...we're there to
like promote ourselves or whatever. It's like Yeah, I'm gonna
go over and I'm gonna talk to these guys in these different
booths. It's like a trade show and they've got all kinds of
booths everywhere. And she's got her clipboard and she's
walking around and she's talking to people and getting
business cards. So she's doing her thing...making contacts
and meeting people and selling...you know. So...but in
between all the selling and stuff it was just...there were
oddities...you know. But...but I don't know how to describe it
anymore than she was like just even more outgoing than she
normally would even be...than she is.
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Rakestraw: You know...I don't know if I did or not. Umm...I can't
remember if I did or not. It'd be pretty normal to do so.
Det. Carrasquillo: So there might be a report with your name on it in her file?
Rakestraw: I don't know if I did. My...my first thought is I didn't but I...I
honestly don't remember.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you...were you asked to write one?
Rakestraw: Uh Uh.
Det. Carrasquillo: So if you would've done one, it would've been self initiated?
Rakestraw: Right. Just so you guys know, do you know it's...it's pretty
normal to write reports.
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm finding that out.
Rakestraw: That out...yeah. It's like just typical. It's just like a
responsibility standpoint...you know. It's a...it's a little bit
different. As kids...and I have a lot of...I have kids...it's more
like kids who get in trouble for telling on their friends...you
know...it...it...it's not like that. It's like...you know...if you
know something...if someone is acting odd, you ought to note it
down so something can be done about it.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Rakestraw: So it was pretty typical.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well let me ask you...that...with that thought in mind...how long
have you been a Sciengologist...since when?
Rakestraw: Umm...84 or 85.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you've been Clearwater that long?
Rakestraw: No...90...89 or 90.
Det. Carrasquillo: Have you reached clear?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Are you beyond clear?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Operating thetan?
Rakestraw: Well, it doesn't work...quite work that way. But have you ever
seen one of these grade charts?
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Rakestraw: I don't know if you've ever seen one.
Det. Carrasquillo: The bridge chart.
Rakestraw: The bridge thing. It's like...it goes a bunch of stuff clear and
then OT 1 2 3 4 5 6 7....
Det. Carrasquillo; Right.
Rakestraw: Yeah. So I'm 7.
Det. Carrasquillo: OT 7?
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: You're the highest one I've met so far.
Rakestraw: Is that right. Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you're perfectly normal to me.
Rakestraw: Yeah...thank you very much. Anyway...
Det. Carrasquillo: That...that's interesting because you said it's a
responsibility...so you don't know if it was self initiated or not...
Rakestraw: If I wrote one, it would've been because I just said man, I've
gotta write this down.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you were not directed by Benetta or someone else to
write...write a...
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Little: Was there something about her memory lapses that would be
report worthy information?
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Rakestraw: Just the behavior.
Det. Little: Those immediate memory lapses...
Rakestraw: Yeah, that kind of thing too. And just to give you...you know...I
sit here...I guess it's a couple years later...and I wonder what
happened...what happened to her...you know. I wonder...I
don't know what happened to her.
Det. Carrasquillo: That...that's what we're trying to find out.
Rakestraw: And I...I don't and I don't know if I ever will...you know. And
it's like...you know...you like somebody really a lot and they do
something odd. Just like this...I'm like "What the"...you
know...and I don't have a clue. So yeah, you would write
something down...you know...you'd note it down.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Rakestraw: And say boy, this is a bit odd here.
Det. Carrasquillo: You know...I wish you would've because it might've given us
some insight down the road.
Rakestraw: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: What...what's your understanding of the circumstances
surrounding her death?
Rakestraw: I have no clue...I have no clue...you know. I didn't even know
until I read it in the paper what happened the night when she
had this accident in the car.
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Rakestraw: I mean if that's what happened. I just read it in the
paper...and so...umm...you know...however many days later
she's...
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, how did you learn about her death?
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Rakestraw: David Slaughter told me.
Det. Carrasquillo: At...at that meeting he held that one time?
Rakestraw: Well, he did...to me...just said...you know come in here. And
he just took me in his office and said it.
Det. Carrasquillo; So he told you she died, and then you have no idea or you have
no understanding of the circumstances surrounding her death?
Rakestraw: No...no...because he didn't really know.
Det. Carrasquillo: And did you ever care for Lisa from November 18, 1995 to
December 5, 1995 while she was down at the Ft. Harrison
Hotel?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know of anyone who did?
Rakestraw: Uh Uh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Have you ever heard of an introspection rundown?
Rakestraw : I've heard of it...I...I...
Det. Carrasquillo: Have you ever participated in one?
Rakestraw: Uh Uh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Or know of anyone who has participated in one?
Rakestraw: Uh Uh. I don't even know what it is.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Well, it's...there's a myriad of stuff...you know. You've
got the medical rundown...the drug rundown...summer
rundown...
Rakestraw: Yeah, I've heard all the different rundowns, but...you know...
usually in...unless you've had one of those, you wouldn't know
what it is.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, it's...my understanding is if you have a psychotic break,
they do an introspection rundown to get you from being
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introverted to extroverted. But you've got to be totally calm
and relaxed and in good physical health.
Rakestraw: Beforehand?
Det. Carrasquillo: Before doing that.
Rakestraw: Yeah, I don't have a clue.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you ever have an opportunity on occasion to take Lisa to
her apartment during November 18, 1995 to December 5,
1995?
Rakestraw: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know of anyone who did?
Rakestraw: Uh Uh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you said...other than the oddity that she was displaying,
did she have any other emotional problems that you were
aware of?
Rakestraw: Like at that time or like...?
Det. Carrasquillo: During...during times when you were in contact with her?
Rakestraw: No...no...no...I mean it was acute. It was like more at that
convention...you know. Really prior to that, everything seemed
fine. But at the convention it was just a point in time...is when
I noticed oddities.
Det. Carrasquillo: Is there anything...and...and I want you to keep in mind...like I
said, I'm not investigating you and I'm not investigating the
Church. I'm just trying to determine if....if something went
wrong...and...and not even the psychological end of it. When
she started to physically deteriorate. I'm trying to find out was
that intentional...was it done...was it criminally intentional...or
did somebody just make a mistake. And if it's a mistake, it's a
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mistake. But is there anything I haven't asked you that you
think might be pertinent that I should know about this
investigation. And I'm not talking about the Church...
Rakestraw: Yeah...
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm talking about that time frame when she started to
deteriorate. Did you hear any rumors? Do you know of
anything that might be important?
Rakestraw: Umm...I don't know anything else...I mean that would...no...no.
I...I...the only thing I find odd is that...and I don't know the
accuracy of this but...because I wasn't in Dallas...in Dallas or
know any people...but...you know...her...her brother and
mother or whatever...not her mother but her brother and her
father...they all died too...committed suicide or something like
that...you know. And to me that's odd. And like...it's like a
whole family it happens to.
Det. Carrasquillo: Why...you think she committed sui...
SIDE TWO OF TAPE
Det. Carrasquillo: Side two. Its 1'5....I'm sorry...1630 hours.
Rakestraw: What was that again?
Det. Little: How would she react if she errored herself...made a mistake
that most people do occasionally?
Rakestraw: Yeah, she'd be hard on herself.
Det. Little: She would be?
Rakestraw: Yeah, she was hard on herself.
Det. Little: In what way?
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Rakestraw: Just like I can't believe I did that or...you know I've got to
do...I've got to do this better...you know...
Det. Little: Ponder it?
Rakestraw: Ponder it...
Det. Little: Ponder it unusual...
Rakestraw: ......I don't know unusual. But if it's unusual than most,
it's because she cared more than most.
Det. Little: Conscientious.
Rakestraw: Conscientious...yeah.
Det. Little: Okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: Ron?
Cacciatore: No questions.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. We're gonna go ahead and...and terminate the interview
at 1630 hours.
Ofc. Reporting Det. Jorge Carrasquillo/elg ID No. 630
Case Status Active Date Cleared ______________
Clearance Type Exception Type
1. Arrest 1. Extradition declined 3. Death of Offender
Adult Juvenile 2. AR of primary offense, 4. V/W refused to cooperate
2. Exceptional secondary offense, 5. Prosecution declined
3. Unfounded w/o prosecution 6. Juv/No Custody
Ofc. Reviewing Date SAO Info
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