Lisa McPherson Files - Interview of Gilda Burton
This is an interview
with Gilda Burton.
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION
FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158
Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/10/97
Location 644 Pierce Street Orig Incident Date 12/6/95
Victim Lisa McPherson VI Prosecute Yes No
Investigator Det. Jorge Carrasquillo
Previous Status Active
Subject None
Impound Inventory None
Today's date is 4/10/97. The time is 1410. This is an interview with Gilda Kay
Burton concerning the Lisa McPherson investigation. Present during the interview
are Attorney Ronald Cacciatore, Det. James Little, and myself, Det. Carrasquillo.
Det. Carrasquillo: For identification purposes Gilda, would you please spell your
full name for me...your date of birth...social security
number...home address...and home phone number please.
Burton: Okay. Gilda...G I L D A...Burton...B U R T 0 N. Kay is K A
Y.. - in the middle there. Address...
Det. Carrasquillo: Your date of birth and social security number.
Burton: Oh. X, 1953. Social security number is
XXX-XX-XXXX.
Det. Carrasquillo: XXXX?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And your home address.
Burton: XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX X which is gonna be
changing pretty soon.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. You're moving?
Burton: No, the zip code's changing...
Det. Carrasquillo: Oh, that's right.
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Burton: X or something...
Det. Carrasquillo: Right. Okay. I understand from talking to you real briefly at
your door that you've known Lisa for a long time. Is that
correct?
Burton: NO VERBAL RESPONSE
Det. Carrasquillo: Why don't you start off by giving me a synopsis of when you
met Lisa...how you met Lisa...and how long you've known her.
Burton: Okay. I don't remember exactly when I first met her, but it was
in the early 80's I think....82...83...and I met her at
the...uh...the Church in Dallas. She was a staff member. And
that's just when I became acquainted with her and I would see
her there. I knew who she was. And then I didn't get to know
her really well until about 88 when she was living in Dallas and
I was living in California and going back and forth to Dallas to
see my grandmother.
Det. Carrasquillo: Then you mentioned something about her being your
daughter's godmother.
Burton: Godmother.........she was the second godmother. A backup
just in case anything ever happened to Brenda.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. When...
Burton: Brenda's the first.
Det. Carrasquillo: When did that transpire?
Burton: I don't remember. Umm...I don't know if it was after we moved
to Clearwater or before. After I think. We just talked about it.
But I don't really remember the conversation completely
but...because she...she'd been somebody else's godmother and
I...I expressed some interest or desire for her to...to be
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Adrian's godmother as, well as Brenda. She said "Okay...well,
I'll be her second godmother"
Det. Carrasquillo: So you guys were pretty close. Did you socialize a lot?
Burton: Sporadically.
Det. Carrasquillo: Where did you guys
Burton: Shopping usually, or she would come over and eat dinner with
us. Umm...shopping...lots of shopping. Concerts...we went to
concerts together.
Det. Carrasquillo: Like...for example?
Burton: Who? Dwight Yokum.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And what about her shopping taste? Did she buy
expensive dresses and stuff like that?
Burton: No. She would buy gifts for her mother frequently and she...I'd
help her pick those out.......she'd buy dancing outfits like
full skirts...you know.
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Burton: Nothing real expensive. Tee shirts...shorts...
Det. Carrasquillo; Okay. Let's talk about you for a minute. How long have
you...were you employed by AMC at one time?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And how long did you work for them? From what time to what
time?
Burton: Umm...May of 91 or 92...I don't remember...that was in
Dallas...through February of 95. And then I...that was full
time...and then I would work sporadically...they had a hard
time filling my position when I left.
Det. Carrasquillo: What was your position?
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Burton: I was the assistant to the art director.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And while...while you were working from May of 91 to
February of 91, Lisa also worked there?
Burton: You mean February of 95?
Det. Carrasquillo: February of 95...correct...I'm sorry. May of 91 through
February of 95.
Burton: Uh Huh...yeah.... Lisa was there.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did you have daily contact with her when she was
there?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. What kind of worker was she?
Burton: What do you mean?
Det. Carrasquillo: Good worker...bad worker?
Burton: She was...she was a workaholic...she was real good. She was
just...she worked...she worked and worked and worked and
worked.
Det. Carrasquillo: How many hours a day would you say she worked?
Burton: I don't know. It would depend because sometimes she would
have something to do afterwards...you know. She'd have an
appointment or...or whatever after work. But she
usually...umm.... and I mean I always...I wouldn't leave at the
same time she would. And I don't go around checking to see if
everybody's already gone when I leave or I don't notice when
they leave, so....
Det. Carrasquillo: But you said she was a workaholic.
Burton: Yeah. She worked on the weekends and she frequently
worked...worked late at night. You know...I'd talk to her and
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she'd say "Well, I've got some work to do I want to get done
before Monday or before whatever."
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And did you relocate with the company from Texas to
here?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: When you and Lisa lived together in Texas, did you socialize a
lot out there also?
Burton: I didn't ever live with her.
Det. Carrasquillo: I don't mean in the same house...Dallas.
Burton: Oh...oh...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Lived in Texas...In the same state...in the same city. Did you
guys socialize with each other in Texas?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Now I...I understood she liked country dancing a lot.
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did...at that point in time, did she have a lot of
non-Scientologist friends?
Burton: I think she had acquaintances. She had some
non-Scientologist good friends.
Det. Carrasquillo: That she would associate with?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And would they go like...I...I understand she liked dancing a
lot.
Burton: Yeah, but I don't think that girl in Austin ever went dancing
with her and I don't think Carlos ever did either. Those were
her two closest friends.
Det. Carrasquillo: Who's the girl in Austin?
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Burton: I don't know...I don't remember. Carol or Colleen.....Colleen. It
seemed like her name was Colleen. I don't know...I never met
her...didn't know who she was.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you mentioned Carlos.
Burton: Carlos....Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: What's Carlos' last name...do you know?
Burton: I don't remember.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know what he does for a living?
Burton: He used to work at the Post Office but I don't know if he still
does.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So those are the only two that you know she associated
with? Anybody else?
Burton: But see...she associated with real closely...
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Burton: I think she had acquaintances...dance partners that she
would...that she would dance with...you know. And then there
were guys that she would date that were non-Scientobogists
that...they'd kinda come and go.
Det. Carrasquillo: So as far as you knew...you knew her when she went through
her first divorce or second divorce?
Burton: First being the guy...
Det. Carrasquilbo: That was a non-Scientologist.
Burton: That got killed or something like that?
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Burton: Yeah, that's right. Uh...no, I didn't know her then.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. But you knew her when she was married to Gene?
Burton: Uh Huh.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So how did she handle Gene's divorce?
Burton: She was upset at first and she was...now you understand I
wasn't around her all the time. Back then she was...she had
gone and she and Brenda were living together.
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Burton: Because Brenda offered her a place to live because she was
leaving California and she didn't really have any place to go
and she didn't want to move in with her mother.
Det. Carrasquillo: Brenda Hubner?
Burton: Hu....Hubert.
Det. Carrasquillo: Hubert...okay.
Burton: Which is now gonna be Spencer because she just got married
last Saturday.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: Umm....what was I saying?
Det. Carrasquillo: That she didn't want to move in with her mother, so she moved
in with Brenda.
Burton: Oh yeah. And I would come and....from California and bring my
daughter and stay with Brenda. And Lisa was there of course
and then Lisa and I would sleep in the same room. We always
kinda piled up together on the floor with my daughter.
So...no....she was...I would see her be upset about her
husband...or ex-husband. And...you know...he'd call to
talk...to talk to her and she'd be in the other room. And I
didn't...I knew it would be upsetting for her because I'd
witnessed...every single time she'd talk to him, she'd get upset.
So...you know...Brenda and I were like "tell him she doesn't
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want to talk to him or something"...you know. So we kinda
fended him off. But a couple of times she'd talk to him and
she'd be all upset. She'd go through this...this dilemma as to
whether or not to go back with him or...you know. And we
were trying to encourage her to...to leave him for good.
Det. Carrasquillo: But...but she held up pretty good mentally? She didn't have a
breakdown or anything like that?
Burton: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: When you were out in California, was she also out in California
at the same time?
Burton: Yes.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you had contact with her in California?
Burton: No. That's before I knew...I knew her well.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you...
Burton: I was just acquainted with her at that point.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you in the same city in California?
Burton: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you were going to the same Church in California?
Burton: Well, I didn't go...no, I never went down...well, wait a
minute...yes, I did. I just didn't go on a regular basis down to
where she was.
Det. Carrasquillo: She was staff at the time, wasn't she...at the Church?
Burton: Yeah, I think so.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: And then she left but I think she...see, I'm not real sure but I
think...
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Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know if that's when she signed that billion year
contract?
Burton: I don't know. I don't know when she signed it.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: The staff contract.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you have any...
Cacciatore: Let...let me...let me interrupt because this may put a little
bit.. give them some information they may not know.
Uh....you're a Scientologist.
Burton: Uh Huh.
Cacciatore: Are you an active Scientologist?
Burton: Well...what do you mean by active?
Cacciatore: Go to the Church a lot and participate in their functions.
Burton: Yeah, but I haven't taken any courses or received any
counseling for quite a while. Umm.... since I was in
California...yeah....about in 89...89...something like that.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you haven't traveled on either side of the bridge...the
administrative side or the personal side...you haven't done
anything with that?
Burton: No. You guys make me feel bad.
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm...I'm just curious.
Burton: No...no. Oh, now my husband and I did go through some
marriage counseling the first spring that we got
here...umm...April or May...May of 94. But that was like a few
weeks...but that's it...that's all I've done. And he's...he's done
a couple of courses since then.
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Det. Carrasquillo: May I ask what level you reached? Are you clear? Have you
reached clear?
Burton: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Under...under clear?
Burton: Uh Huh. I've...I've called what's...I've done what's called the
Scientology...Scientology drug rundown. It addresses when
you...what...the drugs that you've taken throughout your life.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Burton: Medicinal and recreational or whatever.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Do you have any information surrounding the
circumstances of Lisa's leave of absence in July or June of
1995? I'm aware you were not working at AMC at that time.
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: But your husband was.
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Alright. Did...did you have any discussion about Lisa not being
at work during that time period?
Burton: Umm....I don't think so...not with him. I knew...now I knew
that she wasn't there because I was...that's during the time
when I was going down there and working occasionally and
filling in. And I would notice that she wasn't there. So I
asked...I don't know who I asked...umm.... and she was just on
an LOA handling some problems that she was having. So...so I
found out that she was staying at the Ft. Harrison Hotel. And
so I went down there to see her and...anyway, so she...
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. You went down...you went down to see her during...was
it June or July...do you remember?
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Burton: Umm...I think it was more like May.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay...May. I'm trying to pinpoint it. You're the first one
that's given me a month. So it was around May of 95?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you went down around May of 95?
Burton: I mean it may have been June but I'm not sure...I don't know.
I know it wasn't in July because we got together for July...no,
wait a minute...it was July 4th we went out of town. I'm
sorry...that was a different party. In August there was a
birthday party. I'm sorry....I just...it was a long time ago and I
don't have a great memory. Anyway...
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you went...you were working at AMC part-time. You
asked "Where is Lisa?" and they said "She's not here."
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: You went down to see her at the hotel?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And...and how was she? What was she doing?
Burton: She was coming out of a counseling session.
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Burton: And so I...I was told that's where she was and that she'd be out
in a little while. So I just sat down and...and waited for her.
And so I saw her come out and she...she saw me. And...and
Susanne, the girl that was assigned to stay with her because
she had voiced a...a desire to commit suicide...and so they
didn't want her to be left alone...
Det. Carrasquillo: Who...who had voiced a desire?
Burton: Lisa.
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Det. Carrasquillo: And who was Susanne?
Burton: Susanne was a staff member.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know her last name?
Burton: Schumberger.... it's a German name...something like that. And
umm....so I met Susanne and I told her who I was. And I
said...you know "I'd like to see Lisa." And she said "Well, she'll
be out in a little while." And she said "Well while you're...you
know...while you're waiting on her, I'm gonna run and do
something." She had something.... a personal errand or
something to do. And I said "Okay" and she said "Just...you
know...don't leave her alone because..." And I said "I won't"
and I knew what was going on...you know. So anyway...so I
saw her come out and...and she was...you know...was walking
around looking for Susanne and she saw me. And she was all
excited. She started crying. Susanne told me not to...not to
say anything to upset her...keep everything real light...you
know...don't go into anything real heavy for obvious
reasons...you know.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, I'm interested...you said that she expressed a desire to
commit suicide...
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: What kind of counseling was she taking at that time?
Burton: What?
Det. Carrasquillo: What kind of counseling was Lisa taking?
Burton: I don't know.
Det. Carrasquillo: But she was being watched though...monitored....watched.... to
make sure she didn't hurt herself?
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Burton: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: And did anybody else go visit her that you're aware of?
Burton: I don't know.
Det. Carrasquillo: Your husband?
Burton: Uh Uh.
Det. Carrasquillo: But you had no problems to get in to see her whatsoever? You
could just walk in the front door and say "I want to see
her...Lisa" and they allowed you the opportunity?
Burton: Sure.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Let me ask you this now. Do you have any information
regarding her isolation starting November 18, 1995 until
December 5, 1995?
Burton: No...I mean I don't know other than what I've read in the
paper.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did you know that she wasn't at work during that time
period?
Burton: Uh Huh...yeah...I mean I knew...I knew about the bumper
bender that she got into and that she had taken her clothes off.
So I knew things were really bad because you don't take your
clothes off and run down the street unless you're in serious
trouble...you know. So that's basically that's all I knew...you
know. I didn't know...I was real worried...I didn't know what
was...what was happening with her because the last time I'd
seen her she was doing pretty good.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you go down and visit her during November?
Burton: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: How come?
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Burton: Well...like I just said, she...I knew that she was in much worse
shape this time than she had been last time. Umm....I didn't
feel like it was my place to interfere...not that I would be
interfering, but I figured that they were a lot better equipped
and trained to help her through what it was she was going
through.
Det. Carrasquillo: But don't you find it curious that, in June or July, you were
concerned for her and you went down to visit her to see how
she was doing. In November you were concerned for her but
you don't go down.
Burton: Well, I'm a little offended about that.
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm a little curious because you...you figure if she's a good
friend of yours...which she is...
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: You've known her since Texas...
Cacciatore: Let me...let me interrupt. Did...did you go someplace on
October 10th?
Burton: Umm...October 10th?
Cacciatore: Did you go out of town?
Burton: Well, a couple of days after that, yeah, I went to Texas. So I was
gone for several weeks.
Cacciatore: That's what I was trying to...
Burton: Oh, okay.
Det Carrasquillo: Okay. But you came back before November.
Burton: No, I was in Texas in November.
Det. Carrasquillo: You said October 10th you left for a couple of weeks. 31 days in
October. Couple of weeks is 14 and 10 is 24.
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Burton: Well, I'm sorry...three weeks and two days or something.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: I don't...I just remember on my mother's birthday, November
9th, I was in Texas.
Det. Carrasquillo: November 9th. But were you back in town by November 18th?
Burton: I'm not exactly sure what date I came back.
Cacciatore: When's the last day to the best of your...
Burton: But close...close to that.
Cacciatore: To the best of your knowledge, when is the last day you saw
Gilda....saw Lisa...excuse me?
Burton: Around the 10th because I wrote...I wrote down on my calendar
what days I...I worked at AMC because I...so I could keep
my...track of my hours. And the 10th is the last day I have on
there.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you had contact with her November 10th. How did she seem
to you then?
Burton: I don't remember. I'm sure she was...that she seemed fine. I
probably didn't even see her that much that day.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. But nothing to alarm you...nothing to give you an
indication that she was gonna run down the street taking off
her clothes?
Burton: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So when she did do that...run down the street taking off
her clothes...that even seem more absurd to you?
Burton: More than what?
Det. Carrasquillo: Than not taking off your clothes and running down the street.
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Burton: Yeah...I'm sorry...I guess I don't understand that question but
yeah...that's pretty absurd.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well I...I'm going back...I'm going...I want to get back to the
point that...you know...in July or June you were...you were
concerned and you went to see her. In November you were
concerned and you didn't go to see her.
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you told not to go to see her?
Burton: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: You just elected not to?
Burton: I didn't know for a while what had happened. I knew...I didn't
know immediately that day...
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Burton: Or that night...I think it was at night.
Det. Carrasquillo: Which night are we talking about so I can follow you.
Burton: That she was picked up without her clothes on.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: Umm....my husband told me...no, no, no, no...Brenda told me
that...actually Brenda didn't tell me. I had guessed...I guessed
it. I said "Well what is happening with Lisa?" you know. And
she was...she was not wanting to upset me...just like my
husband didn't want to upset me and to say that she had been
acting weird in Orlando on their NAILBA trip. But he just...but
he figured that he had to because I deserved to know. So he
told me...you know...and that's when I started getting worried.
Anyway...so...I'm sorry I'm jumping around here...
Cacciatore: Well let me...
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Burton: It's hard to remember.
Cacciatore: Let me steer you to something that you and I discussed.
Burton: Okay.
Cacciatore: There...there came a time when your husband called you and
said "Can you go with me to see the minister at lunch time" or
something?
Burton: Yeah.
Cacciatore: Is that...okay...why don't you talk about that.
Det. Carrasquillo: That was...that...
Burton: That was a few days after she died.
Det. Carrasquillo: December...after...after her death...December 6th or
7th...somewhere around there?
Burton: No, because I had the...I was deathly ill with the flu.
Det. Carrasquillo: She died December 5th.
Burton: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: In 95.
Burton: Right. And I was sick...real sick for several days before that
and several days after. And I didn't even know that she had
died until 7th ...the 7th I think because my husband didn't want
to tell me because I was so sick and he knew it was gonna be
devastating.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: So I remember it was a Thursday that he told me...or that he
called me and said could he...did I feel good enough to go down
to the chaplain because he...the chaplain wanted to talk to me
about Lisa.
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Det. Carrasquillo: And you were explaining to me prior to this about you found
out the day after she was involved in the accident about her
taking off her clothes?
Burton: Right. No, I didn't find out the day after. I don't know when I
found out about that. It was some days after...maybe a week
afterwards.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well let me ask you this. You're...I've talked to a lot of people
that...that have known Lisa and worked with her.
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And they were all concerned. They said "Yeah, we were...you
know...we were all concerned." But nobody ever went down to
see her. Is that normal?
Burton: I don't know.
Cacciatore: Well, I...I...
Burton: I mean...what do you mean by normal?
Cacciatore: To begin with, I don't know how she would know what's normal
for other people..
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, I'll give you an example...
Cacciatore: I mean I think....I think she knows about her.
Det. Carrasquillo: I think...when I'm talking normal, I'm talking normal in the
workplace. We have over 300 people that work in this building
but they're broken off into sections, units, and
divisions....almost like AMC....you have divisions. When
somebody goes to the hospital...somebody doesn't show up for
work...the normal response is for the co-workers to see how
they're doing. They call them at home. If they're in the
hospital, they go down to the hospital. I'm sure if Mr.
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Cacciatore has a secretary and she doesn't show up for work
for a couple of days, the normal response would be for Mr.
Cacciatore to check in on her...call her at home...if she's in the
hospital to maybe visit her or maybe send flowers. That's what
I mean by normal in that sense. If you have an entire office
that works with an individual and they're not there, wouldn't it
be normal that you're concerned about that person...to go
down and check on them like you did in...in June.
Burton: Well I guess...I mean....I don't know what you're getting at. I
already told you why I didn't go. And if you're trying to make
me feel bad, you're doing a good job of it...I mean...
Det. Carrasquillo: No. I'm trying to find out if...if maybe your religious beliefs
don't allow you to go down there or if you were told by people at
work "We don't want you going down there because we don't
want you disturbing her." It just doesn't seem to me
normal...to me...to me from my past experience with
co-workers...it just doesn't seem normal that nobody went
down to see her.
Burton: Okay. Well, I can understand that you might feel that way but
I already told you I did go down and see her in the summer
time...and.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Burton: So that's not against my religious beliefs. I don't know where
you're getting that. But...you know...I mean...when I...when
she was there in that time period right before she died, I was
actually planning to go down there pretty soon. Umm....I was
hoping I would hear some kind of word that she was doing a
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little better and...you know "Why don't you come down and see
her"...that sort of thing...you know "She's ready to receive
visitors" or something. Not that anybody said "She's not ready
to receive visitors." But I knew that when you take your
clothes off in the middle of the street and walk down the street,
you are in trouble...you know...physically....I mean
mentally...spiritually. And I didn't feel like that I should just
show up and say "Well, I want to see Lisa." I thought maybe it
might upset her...you know. I didn't know what kind of state
of mind she was in. She...for Christ sake, you...you take your
clothes off and walk down the street...that's insane...you know.
Well, is she even gonna recognize me...I don't know.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, that's why I'm asking. Maybe somebody said "This is not
a good time to come down."
Burton: No, nobody said anything.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay, so...I just wanted to make sure because I've interviewed
other care givers that were with her during that time period
and they said they would not have allowed anyone in, even if
you would've come down.
Burton: Well, maybe that was a good thing.
Det. Carrasquillo: So that's why I'm trying to find out if...if the word was given
"don't come down" and by who. That's what I'm trying to find
out.
Burton: No...no...no...no.
Det. Carrasquillo: I don't want...I don't want to make you feel bad. I'm just trying
to put the pieces of the puzzles together.
Det. Little: Was your husband able to visit her?
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Burton: I don't think he went down there to try. You mean in the
summer time?
Det. Little: No...no...no. When she was there in November of 95.
Burton: No, I don't...I don't know that he'd...no, I don't think so...no.
Det. Little: We should ask him, right.
Burton: Well, I thought you already did.
Det. Carrasquillo: We did.
Det. Little: We did?
Det. Carrasquillo: Yeah.
Det. Little: Oh, I'm sorry.
Burton: Oh, you weren't there...that's right...okay.
Det. Little: Okay. I'm sorry.
Det. Carrasquillo: Jim didn't sit in on that interview.
Det. Little: No.
Cacciatore: Gilda, one of the things that was going through your mind
was...in view of what Lisa had told you in the past when you
got a call from your...your husband about going down to see
the minister, you had a concern that maybe you...you thought
somebody was gonna tell you she had committed suicide.
Burton: Uh Huh.
Cacciatore: Just because of her past history.
Burton: Uh Huh. that's what I thought. I thought well, maybe...you
know...somebody was assigned to watch her and something
happened and they didn't and she got away from them and
took off and jumped off a bridge or something...you know.
Det. Carrasquillo: Yeah, because of the family's background you're talking
about...the father and the brother committing suicide?
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Burton: No, because of what she had said earlier...that she had
considered suicide.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right. But you...you knew since you had known her a long
time that her father committed suicide.
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And her brother committed suicide.
Burton: Uh Huh. Well, she was never convinced of that.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right. She thought he was murdered.
Burton: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Det. Little: That's the question...but in the summer of 95 to
November....before her death...were you still close enough with
her that you would talk with each other and would you share
problems or concerns or personal stuff with each other?
Burton: Well, to an extent. Again, I knew that she...just from things
that she was telling me...that she was having a real hard time.
So I wasn't gonna lay anything heavy that I had going on with
me on her.
Det. Little: Can you explain to me what you mean by hard time?
Burton: I'm sorry?
Det. Little: I...I...can you explain to me what you mean by that...by hard
time?
Burton: Well, she was telling me that...she would say...she would say "I
don't know what's wrong with me...I'm not interested in
anything and into anything...I don't want to do anything...I
don't want to go dancing...I don't care about music...I don't
want to go to work...I'm just...you know...I don't know what's
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wrong with me." And for her to say something like that was
completely very odd...completely against what she normally
was like.
Det. Little: In a depressed despondent type bad mood?
Burton: Yeah, she didn't want to brush her teeth. She...you
know...pretty much had to be told to take a bath...that sort of
thing.
Det. Little: Did she give you any idea where this was coming from?
Burton: No, she didn't know.
Det. Little: Okay.
Burton: And that's what was part of her problem. And I wasn't about to
get into it with her because again, she was receiving counseling
through the Church and I didn't want to run across any
lines...you know. And I'm not...I'm not a counselor...you know.
I'm not trained or skilled at helping somebody like that other
than just being friends.
Det. Little: That was strictly...friends expressing concerns between
friends...that's all.
Burton: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know the circumstances surrounding Gloria Cruz living
with Lisa...anything about that?
Burton: They were roommates.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Cacciatore: Let me...let me ask you that along those lines. Do you have
any knowledge whatsoever that somehow Gloria was assigned
to watch Lisa?
Burton: No. I think that's weird.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Well, maybe for the same concern that you articulated earlier.
She was talking about committing suicide. Somebody might've
been concerned for her safety.
Cacciatore: Would...would you...
Burton: No, she was...she seemed fine...you know.
Det. Little: Was she okay with the Church?
Burton: Beg your pardon?
Det. Little: Was she okay with the Church? Did she plan to leave the
Church?
Burton: Not that I know of.
Det. Little: Did she express any concerns like that to you?
Burton: No...no.
Det. Little: Okay.
Cacciatore: Can you tell us if you know...if you don't know, fine...that in
order to watch someone, do you have to be a staff member?
Burton: Well, I would assume so...yeah.
Cacciatore: Gloria ever a staff member?
Burton: No.
Cacciatore: Do you know how old Gloria...Gloria is?
Burton: Excuse me...how old she is?
Cacciatore: Yeah.
Burton: In her 20s...23 maybe.
Det. Carrasquillo: But neither...you know...neither was Mr. Burton at the time he
wrote reports. Neither was Katie Chamberlain when they were
in Orlando...
Cacciatore: Writing...writing reports I would respectfully submit is
substantially different than being assigned to watch somebody.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Well, when you...when you write a report on somebody's
activities and their actions, you're watching them.
Cacciatore: Have you written a report on me?
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm...I'm thinking about it (LAUGHS). No, I haven't.
Cacciatore: Okay.
Burton: I disagree...I mean I think if...if Lisa had come to me and said
in...in the summer...had said Gilda, I'm gonna do it...I'm just
gonna off myself. You...you want to watch how fast I'd be
writing a report and sending it up to her counselors...
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay...and...and..
Burton: I'm not gonna let something like that go by.
Det. Carrasquillo: Exactly. And I have no problem with that. I understand that.
And the other thing that I was trying to get at was since you
mentioned suicide...if she was being suicidal at that time,
maybe they...you know...they had Gloria there to make sure
she didn't do anything irrational during that time period for her
own protection more than anything else.
Burton: Well, she wasn't receiving auditing as far as I know. I don't
think she was receiving counseling at that time.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: I think she was done with what she was doing.
Det. Carrasquillo: Oh, so you...you're saying that Lisa and her were living
together...together after the June incident?
Burton: Uh Huh...as far as I know.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: Maybe I'm wrong. I don't even know when they started
becoming roommates.
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Det. Carrasquillo: I've got a couple more questions for you....
Det. Little: Can you pause a minute?
Burton: Is there anyway I can get a drink of water?
Det. Little: I was just gonna ask you if I might get you a cup of water. You
want me to bring it in here so you can keep it in here?
Burton: Please...wonderful.
Det. Little: Ron, how about you...would you like some water?
Burton: I'd like a cup...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: The time is 1640 hours...correction...1440 hours is the correct
time.
SIDE TWO OF TAPE
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. We're on side two and the time is going to be 1445
hours. What was your understanding of the circumstances
surrounding the death of Lisa McPherson?
Burton: My understanding?
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Burton: Then or now?
Det. Carrasquillo: Both.
Burton: Okay. Umm...I don't know but it changed.
Det. Little: Since you're pausing, let's stop...let's stop for a second.
Burton: Okay.
Det. Little: And let me just double check something.
Burton: Okay. Umm...I...oh...oh...I went down to...to the Church to see
Susanne because I knew Susanne. And so I went and I saw
her and...you know, this was like probably a few days after I
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had seen the chaplain. So I was feeling a lot better then.
But...so anyway...so...you know...of course we started crying
and we were hugging each other. And I was asking her what
happened. And I knew she was in quarantine for several days
after she died because they were...from what I heard, they were
afraid she had spinal meningitis...is that
right...yeah...meningitis. And they were scared that it was
contagious, so her kids and her were quarantined. So then
when I knew she was out...you know...I asked her and...and
she just said that she...you know...had kinda snapped out of
things and was doing better and then got really sick really fast
and that they didn't know what was wrong...what had
happened...you know...what actually caused her death at that
point. Again, this is...you know...a week or so after she had
died.
Det.Carrasquillo: So we're talking the middle of December 1995?
Burton: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And...and as I understand, it changes from then to now?
Burton: Well, I mean...there's...there seems to be conflicting accounts
or reports or whatever. I heard that she had a staph infection
that was all over her body...you know...throughout all of her
body and that...and then I heard that she was just dehydrated
and...and bed rest...and that's what caused her death
and...you know...I don't know. I wasn't there.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. But you did get a copy of her autopsy report. How
come?
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Burton: Because I wanted to know what happened and I wanted to read
it for myself...you know. I didn't want somebody to tell me or I
didn't want to read it in the newspaper or whatever...you know.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you just went out and got it out of curiosity?
Burton: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you surprised they gave you a copy of the autopsy report?
Burton: No. I don't know...
Det. Carrasquillo: Wasn't supposed to. Its an ongoing investigation, so that's
where...where they made a mistake.
Burton: Well, I thought it was public record.
Det. Carrasquillo: Not at that point in time.
Burton: Oh. Well, I just called the...the Medical Examiner's Office and
they put my name on the list. But it was...it was forever
afterwards.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you tell them you were a family member when you called
there?
Burton: They didn't ask.
Det. Carrasquillo: They just put your name on the list and then they released it to
you?
Burton: Yeah...no, actually they said send a self addressed stamped
envelope.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Burton: And requesting...you know...this...
Det. Carrasquillo: When...when did you send that envelope?
Burton: In January.
Det. Carrasquillo: Of 96?
Burton: Yeah.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And they...do you know when they sent it to you?
Burton: No. It was...it was a long time after that...months and months
and months and months.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So what you read in the autopsy...does that match what
was your understanding of her death?
Burton: Well yeah...when I read the autopsy...yeah. When I...I
mean....probably not anything you'd want to know...but I was
just concerned that she might have some...considering what
she had been doing and...you know...acting weird and doing
weird things...I thought there was something wrong with her
brain. I was actually hoping there was just because that would
be an answer...you know.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right. Jim, you have any questions?
Det. Little: Well, I wasn't clear on one point. Did you say there was a
concern that you'd heard expressed about her having
meningitis prior to her dying and that's why she was in
isolation?
Burton: No...no...no...no...no.
Det. Little: You didn't say that. Okay.
Burton: That they were worried that her symptoms were that of
meningitis when she died.
Det. Little: And that's why...
Burton: And that's why Susanne was quarantined so that, if she came
down with it or had the germs, she wouldn't spread it through
every...you know...everybody.
Det. Little: Thanks. I understand.
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Det. Carrasquillo: I've just got one more that I forgot to ask you. Did...did you
ever write a report regarding Lisa McPherson...her activities?
Burton: I don't think so.
Det. Carrasquillo: So there should be no re....
Burton: Oh, yes I did. Umm...when I went to visit her mother.
Det. Carrasquillo: When was that?
Burton: April.
Det. Carrasquillo: Of what year?
Burton: 96.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you wrote a report regarding Lisa's mother?
Burton: Yeah. That she was upset and still thinking that her friends
had stolen things of Lisa's.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Where did that report go to and who did you deliver it
to?
Burton: Umm... Brian Anderson because I think he's in the Office Of
Special Affairs. And I knew he had been talking to her
mother... dealing with her mother. So I wanted him to know
that she was upset and she...there were things she wanted
answers to and he needed to get the answers for her.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know if they ever responded to that report?
Burton: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: And that report really dealt with Lisa's mom and not Lisa
herself?
Burton: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Any other reports you can think of?
Burton: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: I think that will conclude the interview.
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Cacciatore: Let me...I think you've asked other people questions along
these lines, so I want to explore one small area. Uh...were you
over at Lisa's apartment the day or night...whenever it
was...that her mother and aunts were in town?
Burton: Uh Huh...yes.
Cacciatore: And do you have any way of being able to explain why these
people thought that somebody would've stolen stuff belonging
to Lisa?
Burton: Well, they seemed to be really confused. They would go back
and forth between one point and another. Umm... Lisa's
mother was concerned about her jewelry. And I reminded her
that Lisa had been robbed back when she lived in her first
apartment after we first moved to Clearwater. Her apartment
got broken into and they just....
Det. Carrasquillo: December of 19...January of 1994. I think there was a TV and
stereo ...... no jewelry. No jewelry was reported stolen by
Lisa.
Burton: Oh. Well, I was told jewelry.
Det. Carrasquillo: And there were also documents left behind in Lisa's apartment
of her buying expensive furniture. The receipts were there. We
checked with the store and they were delivered but the
furniture was not in the house and it wasn't down in Texas
either.
Burton: Well, it was there the day I went to see her mother. Her mother
was sitting on her couch. That...that red and green...red
striped...I've got pictures of it...yeah. her mother was sitting on
the couch.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Were people taking furniture and stuff out of the apartment
when you were there?
Burton: Gloria was moving. Gloria was moving herself because she had
plane tickets to Honduras for the next day that she had bought
a long time prior to this.
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh. But there was...there was...
Burton: She's on vacation to see her grandmother.
Det. Carrasquillo: There were items being taken out of the apartment at the time
when you were there?
Burton: Gloria's...yeah. Gloria's bed and clothes.
Det. Carrasquillo: I don't know. I wasn't there. I'm just asking you.
Burton: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: They were physically removing stuff from inside that
apartment?
Burton: Yes.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Cacciatore: But as far as you know, they weren't taking any...whoever was
there moving stuff wasn't taking stuff belonging to Lisa?
Burton: Uh Uh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Now don't...this is not even a Grand Theft investigation
because Lisa's not gonna be here to say that's mine or not
mine.
Burton: Right.
Det. Carrasqullo: You know...I'm just...
Burton: No, it just makes me...I mean forgive me for being angry but I
was there. And then I read in the newspapers that...they
said...what did they say Lisa's friends were carting her
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belongings off. Excuse me...I was there. Her mother even
asked me if there was anything I wanted. So that just makes
me really really angry. So .......
Cacciatore: And...and so you will know...and I'm not suggesting that the
Clearwater Police Department is involved in any way with
Attorney Ken Dandorf, but he has suggested to me about some
kind of theft...
Det. Carrasquillo: That's not even our jurisdiction down there. That would be
Belleair Police Department. That's where she lived. She lived
in the city limits of Belleair, so they would have an...an
investigation. We're not even gonna be looking at that. We're
just doing a death investigation.
Cacciatore: Well, I just didn't understand how...if there was a theft...what
that would have to do with any claim for wrongful death action
or any criminal investigation.
Det. Carrasquillo: You're gonna...you're gonna have to address that to Mr.
Dandorf.
Cacciatore: Yeah.
Det. Little: Did she ever express any financial concerns of hers to you?
Burton: .....well, when she first moved back to Dallas, I know she
didn't have money... she didn't have any...
Det. Little: From California?
Burton: Uh Huh....yeah.
Det. Little: No. I mean any serious concerns say within the last...well,
during 95 at all that you recall her expressing in some way?
Burton: No, she didn't talk to me about money...no.
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Det. Little: Okay. Was she ever disciplined at work at anytime that you
ever remember?
Burton: Oh...oh...I thought you meant like she was self disciplined.
Det. Little: No. An employee...you know...doing something minor or
whatever.
Burton: What do you mean by disciplined?
Det. Little: Anything. Did she ever do anything that...just that...violate
company policy or anything like that or...
Burton: No. I mean even if she was I wouldn't have been privy to it
because it was none of my business...you know.
Det. Little Yeah. So in other words, you say she was a good employee and
never subject to any discipline while she was working at AMC,
right?
Burton: Yeah...
Det. Little: Yeah...that's...
Det. Carrasquillo: I've got a question. After you finish these interviews here, do
you go back and write a report about any of these?
Burton: Well, this is the first interview I've ever done...but no, I don't
intend to.
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm just curious.
Burton: I promise I won't.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. It doesn't bother me one way or the other. I was just
thinking about that.
Burton: I haven't thought about it to be honest with you.
Det. Carrasquillo: Somebody told me at the very beginning that, if it wasn't
written down, it wasn't true....
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Burton: Well, its kind of a standard thing so that people don't get the
wrong idea about something like "Well, oh so and so said that
you're supposed to do this" or...you know. If you just take that
and run with it...you know...sometimes it's wrong.
Det. Carrasquillo: Anymore questions Jim?
Det. Little: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Ron?
Cacciatore: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: The interview will be terminated at 1455 hours.
Burton Oh..
TAPE STOPS
TAPE BEGINS AGAIN
Det. Carrasquillo: Back on tape.
Burton: Sorry.
Det. Carrasquillo: Go ahead.
Burton: I just wanted to say that...you know...I...I read all this stuff in
the papers. I don't know what to believe and what not to
believe...most of it I don't believe...about her being held against
her will and...and she was planning on leaving the Church
and...and that's why they were holding her and...and I don't
know where this is coming from. Umm...I mean like I told you
earlier, I haven't done any real active services and I haven't got
anybody banging on my door or holding a gun to my
head...you know. I don't know where that's coming from.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Just to make...set you at ease...we're not investigating the
Church of Scientology. We...we have never intended to
investigate the Church of Scientology. We are not investigating
you or your husband. You're not even a suspect. You're not
even a witness to this. I just wanted to get background
information from you for Lisa. What we're trying to determine
is if somebody was neglectful...criminally neglectful for Lisa's
physical deterioration. And if somebody was, they should be
accountable. If it was just an accident and nobody was, then
it's an accident and accidents do happen...you know. I've got
no control over what the press prints and what the press states
but I can tell you what...what our objective is.
Burton: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: Very simple. Was someone crim...criminally responsible for
her physical detriment...yes or no. If they...if they were, then
we identify it and we take it to the State. If they're not and it
was an accident, then that's the end of that.
Burton: How do you define that? I don't really know...
Det. Carrasquillo: Florida State Statute. You've got a great criminal attorney here
who....will define what's a criminal act and what's not a
criminal act.
Cacciatore: That it?
Burton: I think so.
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Ofc. Reporting Det. Jorge Carrasquillo/elg ID No. 630
Case Status Active Date Cleared ______________
Clearance Type Exception Type
1. Arrest 1. Extradition declined 3. Death of Offender
Adult Juvenile 2. AR of primary offense, 4. V/W refused to cooperate
2. Exceptional secondary offense, 5. Prosecution declined
3. Unfounded w/o prosecution 6. Juv/No Custody
Ofc. Reviewing Date SAO Info
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