Lisa McPherson Files - Interview of Gurney Pasco
This is an interview
with Gurney Pasco, a co-worker of Lisa McPherson's at AMC Publishing.
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION
FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 9529158
Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97
Location 644 Pierce Street Orig Incident Date 12/6/95
Victim Lisa McPherson VI Prosecute Yes No
Investigator Det. Jorge Carrasquillo
Previous Status Active
Subject None
Impound Inventory None
Today's date is 4/1/97. The time is 1445. This is an interview with Mr. Pasco
concerning the Lisa McPherson investigation. Present during the interview are Det.
Jim Little of Clearwater Police Department, Attorney Ron Cacciatore, who represents
Mr. Pasco, and myself, Det. Carrasquillo.
Det. Carrasquillo: Mr. Pasco, would you please state for me your first...personal
information such as your full name...and spell it...home address
and date of birth...social security number...home telephone
number and work telephone number please.
Pasco: Sure. Uh...my full name is Gurney...G U R N E Y...Mallory...
M A L L O R Y...Pasco...PASCO. Uh...my date of birth is
X/48. My current home address is ,
X, Florida X. My home phone number is .
And my...I'm currently employed at X, which is
located at , X Florida
X telephone number .
Det. Carrasquillo: And your social security number sir?
Pasco: Social security number is XXX-XX-XXXX.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Florida Law allows me to place you under oath. So this
will be an interview under oath. Would you please raise your
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right hand. Do you swear to tell me the truth and nothing but
the whole truth so help you God?
Pasco: I do.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Thank you. Now Mr. Pasco, if you will just give me a
brief synopsis of how you met Lisa, I think we can start with
that.
Pasco: Okay. Uh...I was employed at AMC Publishing on April the 4th,
1995. And at the time, Lisa was a salesperson there. She was
one of the sales consultants. And that is how I came to know
Lisa.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you...actually the first contact you ever had with Lisa was
April 1995?
Pasco: Yes.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did...how long did you work for AMC Publishing?
Pasco: Uh...about 18 months...a year and a half.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you worked until...?
Pasco: Until October of...I think it was October the 14th of 1996.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you were there when Lisa passed away?
Pasco: Yes, I was.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. We can skip some of the questions. Will you describe for
me your job title...what you were doing at AMC at the time that
you were employed by them?
Pasco: I was the consultant copywriter. Basically, I interviewed their
clients, who were insurance marketers, in order to compose ads
that...that were published in a...what do you call it...a card
pack...which we mailed out to insurance agents to recruit them.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
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Pasco: So that...that was basically what I did.
Det. Carrasquillo: So you put together card packs basically?
Pasco: I wrote the ad copy. I didn't do the...the art work. But I did the
ad copy.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you had no contact with the insurance agents
themselves?
Pasco: Umm...I...I had contact with the insurance marketers. They
were our clients. I had...I had phone contact with them. I also
had contact with the sales consultants, which Lisa was
one...because the sales consultant was kinda like the marketer's
primary contact. They...they kinda took them under their wings
so to speak, and they had a lot of...a lot of personal information
about the person and what they were looking for in the ads. So
there was a lot of liaison between me and the sales consultants.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, let...let me make sure I understand this.
Pasco: Okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you involved in this selling procedure in any way, shape, or
form?
Pasco: Not the selling itself. But from the point that...that the...the
client purchased an ad...to the point that the ad was
produced...there was a lot of interchange between myself and
the sales reps.
Det. Carrasquillo: To see what the client wanted?
Pasco: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. But you were not based on commission or nothing like
that?
Pasco: No, I...I was based...
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Det. Carrasquillo: Straight salary?
Pasco: Just straight salary...right.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you mentioned that you had daily contact with Lisa.
Pasco: I would say almost everyday...yeah...probably...probably
daily...Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And...and...and it was involving strictly work...you know...what
does this client want...what does this client need...things like
that?
Pasco: Pretty much. AMC is a...it's an interesting place to work...it's a
great place to work. Uh...at that time, we had a cook who...who
cooked our meals. And...you know...you...you didn't have to
participate in it. But if you wanted to, you...for a very minimal
fee you could get a really good...good meal. We had like a lunch
room. And on a...on a nice warm day we...we put out picnic
tables and so forth. So...so there...there was a lot of comradery.
So there was...there was that kind of interchange at lunch time
as well.
Det. Carrasquillo: Was that Michelle Smith or Peggy Kearns when you were there?
Pasco: The...the cook that we had was Peggy.
Det. Carrasquillo: Peggy Kearns...the blonde?
Pasco: Right.
Det. Carrasquillo: So...which makes sense...you sat around and you talked about
work anyway and you had a good decent meal out of it.
Pasco: Right...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: We should do that around here.
Pasco: Yeah, it was...it was...
Det. Little: Yeah.
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Pasco: It was real nice.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you have any...my understanding is that Lisa took a leave of
absence in either June or July of 95. Do you have any
information on that?
Pasco: None...no, I...I didn't have any privileged information about it.
I...I was just made aware that she was on leave of absence.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did they tell you what for since you were made aware?
Pasco: It...it was...it was not gone into in great detail.
The...the...the...the impression was that she had some kind of
physical illness that she was...that she was dealing with...or
some kind of illness. I don't know if it was stress related. They
didn't specify the physical nature. She had some kind of illness.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you...do you remember if that was in June or July or what
month?
Pasco: I really couldn't say exactly what month it was. I just remember
that it did occur.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Pasco: After I had been there a little while.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you have any information regarding her isolation starting
November 18, 1995, until her death December 5, 1995?
Pasco: This is the only information that I have firsthand in that area.
Uh...the Flag Service Organization, which is down there on Ft.
Harrison, has a weekly graduation ceremony every Friday night.
All the...the students who have completed courses that week are
recognized and they have a guest speaker come in. It's a nice
ceremony. And then afterwards, they have like refreshments.
And usually my wife and I go to that. It's a nice thing to do on
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Friday evening. Uh...one of those graduation nights, I was at
the Ft. Harrison. After the ceremony, we were sitting out around
the pool and Lisa was there going for a swim. And I...I hadn't
seen her for a while. I...I...I knew she had checked into the Ft.
Harrison.
Det. Carrasquillo: So this was...after November 18th is when she checked in?
Pasco: Right. This was probably within a week or so of her death.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And you saw Lisa going for a swim one evening. Around
what time?
Pasco: It was like...well, usually the ceremony thing gets out about 10
or so. So it was about 10 or so. And she...she looked in pretty
good shape...you know. We talked and she seemed like she was
doing pretty decent.
Det.Carrasquillo: Okay. That was a Friday night.
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And it was about 10:00. How long was she out at the pool for?
Do you know?
Pasco: Well, she was there for a little while...I don't know...for 10 or 15
minutes. Then she went and got into the hot tub and got back
out. And after a while she dried off and went back to her
cabana. She...she was staying in one of those rooms.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did you see her walk into the cabana?
Pasco: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Which cabana did she walk into?
Pasco: I don't remember...I didn't see her go into the room but I...I saw
her walk off in that direction.
Det. Little: Did you speak to her?
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Pasco: Yeah, we...we spoke.
Det. Little: You and your wife spoke with her for a while?
Pasco: Yeah...yeah.
Det. Little: Do you remember what you spoke about or...?
Pasco: I just asked her how she was doing and she...you know...she
seemed like she was doing pretty good. She looked in pretty
good shape really. I was...
Det. Little: Health and mentally?
Pasco: Yeah...
Det. Little: She was doing all right?
Pasco: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And she was out by the pool by herself?
Pasco: Yeah, there was nobody with her. She was just taking a swim.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Pasco: And she said she was...she was...she did that. I...I asked her
about that I think. And she said...you know...she was taking
swims every night. It was kinda like recommended that she get
some exercise and take it easy and so forth.
Det. Carrasquillo: So she...do you remember if she was wearing a two piece or a
one piece?
Pasco: I think she was wearing a two piece actually.
Det. Carrasquillo: Two piece?
Pasco: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And...and you said you spoke to her, so there's no doubt in your
mind it wasn't somebody that looked like Lisa. This was
actually Lisa.
Pasco: Oh no, this was Lisa. I knew Lisa very well.
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Det. Carrasquillo: And...and what did she tell you...again?
Pasco: Well, I just asked her how she was doing and...you know...she
said she was doing pretty well. And she looked pretty good...she
looked pretty relaxed...more relaxed than I had seen her for a
while because she...in...in the office a lot of times she was
real...you know...there was a lot of stuff going on and so forth.
And she seemed like she was pretty calm and relaxed. And she
said that she was going for swims on a nightly basis and she...it
was like kinda a little regiment she had gotten into. It was
recommended that she relax and take it easy, so that's what she
was doing.
Det. Little: Can you relate that Friday to being the Friday after
Thanksgiving or the next week?
Pasco: I really couldn't pinpoint. I...I...I do recall that...that when I
heard that she was...that she had died...
Det. Little: Uh Huh.
Pasco: I thought "I just saw her a week or two ago." It was like real
recent...you know...it was like not too...not too long before she
had died that I'd seen her. And I thought she looked...she
looked like she was doing...
Det. Carrasquillo: Pretty good.
Pasco: Yeah.
Det. Little: Was she with anybody at that time?
Pasco: No, she was by herself taking a dip.
Det. Little: Mallory...you're sure what you're describing...was it November of
95 as opposed to sometime during the summer?
Pasco: I'm sure that it was close to when she died.
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Det. Little: All right.
Det. Carrasquillo: Because we...specifically we're talking after her accident, right.
That's what...I take it this conversation was after...November
18th was her accident.
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you knew she was at the hotel.
Pasco: I knew she was at the hotel...right...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And it was a couple of weeks before you found out she had died
when you had this contact?
Pasco: Yeah.
Det. Little: And during the period, she was on leave from work?
Pasco: Yeah, she was...she...yeah...she'd actually been on leave for a
while and she came back and then she went back on leave.
Det. Carrasquillo: Correct.
Pasco: This was during her second period.
Det.Little: All right.
Pasco: Yeah.
Det. Little: After the accident.
Pasco: Yeah, I..actually...actually I wasn't even privy to the
accident...you know. I found about that later on.
Det. Little: I see.
Det. Carrasquillo: You said your wife was with you. What's...what's your wife's
name?
Pasco: Joan.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did Joan have an occasion to also talk to Lisa?
Pasco: Well, she was just there with me...I mean...she didn't know Lisa
as well as I did. She'd just seen her a couple of times...you
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know...maybe a...like the few times we would go out to eat...all
of us would go out to eat or something. That was about the only
time she'd ever met Lisa.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did Lisa come over to the table you were sitting at?
Pasco: Uh...she was swimming in the pool and I just kinda...I don't
remember if I approached her or she approached me. I think I
kinda walked up to her. She was...she was there and we just
talked. I mean she wasn't avoiding me or anything like that. I
don't think she came up to me. I think I came up to her and
approached her.
Det. Carrasquillo: So your wife didn't hear the conversation. She just probably
saw you talking to a lady.
Pasco: Well, no. I think Joan was with me. I think we both walked
over there and talked to her.
Det. Carrasquillo: Anything else you can remember during that time frame that
could be important that I haven't asked you about?
Pasco: I know that when Lisa came back the first time...for the little
while that she was back on the post, she was doing real well in
terms of the amount of production she was getting done. She
was...she was making a lot of sales and she was real good with
the clients. I mean she...clients just loved her. She was a very
sweet person. Everybody loved her...you know...when she was
there. And that was the other thing about her. She...she...she
seemed like she was really in control of things...that she was
doing...doing really well. Oh...one other thing that I did want
to...to mention that seemed pertinent to me because it's kinda
like...it kinda like contradicts some of the stuff you read in the
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paper...was that she had...there's...there's a state...it's kinda of
a...like a...a milestone you might say in the Scientology
counseling process called the state of clearing.
Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh.
Pasco: Maybe you've heard of this. And she had...not too long before
this, she had...she had gone clear. At...at AMC when anybody
has a big thing like that happen, we all get together and the
person tells their...their wins...you know. And she was just
doing excellently well at the time. It seemed...I was really...the
whole thing just seemed like it was such a weird thing. It
seemed like contradictory to everything that I had perceived
about...about Lisa.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, that's why we're conducting an investigation because it
doesn't...it's kinda weird...the circumstances surrounding it.
But that's important that you saw her and we need to make that
known.
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Let...let me ask you this. You said your wife was with you when
you walked up there and talked to Lisa.
Pasco: I believe so.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do...do you remember if they engaged in a conversation?
Pasco: I don't think she said much directly to my wife. Well, she...she
might have said "Hi" you know. She didn't really know my wife
that well.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know...well, let's not jump...let's go down the list here.
Pasco: Okay.
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Det. Carrasquillo: Did anybody give you an explanation as to why Lisa was not at
the office during that second time frame when you...you ran into
her at the Ft. Harrison?
Pasco: Umm...no. I just...I think it was just...it was kinda like she'd
had a relapse was the...was the general impression.
There...there wasn't any statement...you know...official
statement or anything like that...or any memo passed around or
anything.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did...did you have any social contact with Lisa?
Pasco: Other than what I've already described...no...you know...we
went to...all of us went out to eat occasionally like after work or
something but...
Det. Carrasquillo: But that's work related.
Pasco: Right. But nothing...nothing other than that.
Det. Carrasquillo: I mean like you or your wife and yourself would go out to
movies...?
Pasco: No...no.
Det. Carrasquillo: Dancing or come over to the house and things like that?
Pasco: No, nothing like that.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Det. Little: Was she ever the focus of any discipline you know of at work or
any problems like that?
Pasco: Uh Uh.
Det. Little: It didn't seem she would be the kind of person...
Pasco: She was...she was like...at work -- when she was on post, she was
very productive...extremely productive.
Det. Little: A motivator.
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Pasco: Right. She...you know...every...everybody knew so. It seemed
like things went better when she was around...you know. She
was really good at what she did.
Det. Little: Were you ever at her apartment in Belleair?
Pasco: No, I was not.
Det. Little: Did you know she lived there?
Pasco: No, I didn't know where she lived.
Det. Little: All right. Thank you.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know the circumstances surrounding Glora Cruz living
with Lisa?
Pasco: Umm....Gloria....I knew that Gloria was...I thought Gloria and
T.C. lived together. That was my impression. I didn't know that
she lived with Lisa.
Det. Carrasquillo: When was your last contact with Lisa McPherson prior to her
death?
Pasco: That time I saw her around the pool. That was it.
Det. Carrasquillo: How did you learn about Lisa's death and the circumstances
surrounding same?
Pasco: Umm...David Slaughter called us all into a meeting and
told...told us what...what had happened.
Det. Carrasquillo: Was there another David working at AMC at the time?
Pasco: Another...
Det. Carrasquillo: Besides David Slaughter.
Pasco: Another David? Seems like there was another guy named David.
When you mentioned it...when you said that, it kinda rang a bell
but nothing specifically though.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Don't worry about it.
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Pasco: Okay.
Det. Little: Prior to you finding out about her death and the time...and after
the time you saw her at the pool, did you...was anybody
expressing any concern for her well-being at that time...about
her physical condition or anything?
Pasco: Well, no...the...the....since...since I didn't have any
communication about it, I was a little bit anxious about it...you
know...because...uh...as I said...she...when...when...the
evidence that I had seen, it looked like she was doing real well.
So there was something that I didn't...that I wasn't privy to
about her condition that made me feel concerned for her.
Det.Little: But her physical condition from the time you saw her...before
she went into this isolation or her rest period at the Church, did
it seem to be similar? Did she seem to be similar in physical
condition to the time that you saw her at the pool? Any change?
Pasco: Uh Uh. I'm not sure which...re...re-state that.
Det. Little: Oh, I'm sorry. I just wondered...from the time you saw her
before she went in isolation...her condition at that time...
Pasco: Before she went into isolation...
Det. Little: In comparison...
Pasco: It was like...
Det. Carrasquillo: Before November 18th.
Pasco: Oh, okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: Prior to November 18, 1995.
Pasco: Okay. Uh...she seemed like she was in good shape to me. I
mean she...she looked good...she dressed nicely...she...she
seemed like she was very debouyant...that's a good word...in a
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very...that's...that's the kind of character she was. She had a lot
of effervescence about her. She was real...
Det. Little: Gusto.
Pasco: Yeah. I...I really liked her...she was very likable.
Det. Little: And she was in that same demeanor...
Pasco: Yeah.
Det. Little: At the pool?
Pasco: Well...no. When I saw her...when I saw her at the pool, she
didn't seem quite as tough. I mean...but she seemed like she
was kind of relaxed...more relaxed than I'd seen her. I mean she
looked like she was kinda like more into herself but kinda
content.
Det. Little: Was she anymore reserved? Was she more reserved than...?
Pasco: She seemed very friendly.
Det. Little: Okay.
Pasco: You know...very...
Det. Carrasquillo: Probably didn't have the stress of work added on.
Pasco: Yeah, that...that would...that would help delete any stress.
Det. Carrasquillo: What was your understanding of the circumstances surrounding
the death of Lisa McPherson?
Pasco: My understanding was that she had...she had a...umm...an
aneurysm in her leg that had somehow found it's way into her
heart or her brain or something like that...just a freak thing. I
mean this similar thing happened to my uncle, so I...it...it didn't
seem totally beyond...I mean it seemed like something that
could...see, I didn't know about this auto accident. I mean that
kinda gave...shed some light on it...you know. ..because in an
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auto accident you...you could possibly develop something like
that and it'd go undetected. But that was what I was told...you
know...
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Pasco: That's my understanding.
Det. Carrasquillo: I know...I know you saw her sometime between November 18th
and December 5th at the...at the pool.
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: At the Ft. Harrison on South...but did you have an occasion to
go by there and care for her during that period?
Pasco: Any care?
Det. Carrsquillo: Yeah.
Pasco: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Or do you know of anyone who did provide any care for her
during that period?
Pasco: No, I can't...I don't know...
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Have you ever heard of an introspection rundown?
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know what that is?
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Can you explain it to me?
Pasco: A...a little bit...I...I don't...I'm not a...I'm not a technical expert
in this area, but I can tell you what my understanding of it is.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Please do.
Pasco: Okay. Okay. Uh...a...a being...a person can get into a state of
mind where they're looking inward too intently and
they're...they're not able to extrovert...you know. And
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they...they think and they worry about their...what's going on in
their...in their mind...more than they do about what's going on
in the universe. And the in-rundown is designed to alleviate the
things that create that condition and get the person able to
ex...extrovert. And that's all it's about.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So it's switching their focus from in...in...inner focus to
outer focus?
Pasco: Right...right. It's...it's...it's an unhealthy condition if
you're...you know...looking inward all the time.
Det. Carrasquillo: How long have you been a Scientologist?
Pasco: Since 1968.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Then you've gone beyond clear?
Pasco: Actually, I'm right...right around clear. I've got a
couple...a...a...I'm kind of...yeah, that's about where I am.
I'm...I'm...I went clear about 14 or 15 years ago but I haven't
done much beyond that.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you took...there's several bridges you can take. You're
working on the administrative side bridge or the personal
bridge?
Pasco: Well, right now umm...most of the stuff that I've done lately has
been in the area of different types of...see, there's training and
then there's processing. The processing is the personal
counseling.
Det. Carrasquillo: All right.
Pasco: I've done more training lately than I have...
Det. Carrasquillo: Processing.
Pasco: Processing...yeah.
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Det. Carrasquillo: And you said you attended Lisa's ceremony to clear...right?
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did she seem pretty happy to you at that point in time with no
problems?
Pasco: Very happy...extremely happy. It's a very up...you know...very
uplifting kind of thing.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Well, did you...did you attend the N.A.I.L.B.A. Convention
in Orlando?
Pasco: No, I didn't go to N.A.I.L.B.A.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Do you know if Lisa had any emotional problems?
Pasco: Umm...I didn't know about those...no. Those were related to
me after the fact.
Det. Carrasquillo: And you're not involved with the payroll at work, so you have no
idea what Lisa was making or what kind of financial problems
she had, if any?
Pasco: Uh Uh. I wouldn't have had any knowledge of that.
Det. Carrasquilo: Did...did she ever talk about financial problems that she might
be incurring?
Pasco: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you ever staff?
Pasco: You mean in the...
Det. Carrasquillo: In the Church.
Pasco: In the church. Yes, I was. I was on staff at the...the
organization in Washington, D.C. for about 7-1/2 years.
Det. Carrasquillo: And...and what was your post or your hat?
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Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did you re...write any reports regarding Lisa McPherson?
Pasco: Did...did I read or write?
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you write.
Pasco: Okay. No, I did not.
Det. Carrasquillo: You've never been directed to write a report about Lisa's
behavior or even that incident when you saw her at the pool on
the 18th...after the 18th of November?
Pasco: No, that was just like a little social thing.
Det. Carrasquillo: So there should be no reports in her file with your signature on
them?
Pasco: I would think not.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Jim, you have anything?
Det. Little: Just a question maybe in line with that. But on an
introspection rundown...
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Little: Could a person have some negative results from
being...participating in a session like that?
Pasco: If it's done standardly, then there would be no negative results.
But if there are any negative results, there are correction lists
that are done to handle them...uh...so...
Det. Little: It's...it's recognizable then?
Pasco: Right.
Det. Little: When a person is having a problem.
Pasco: Right...right.
Det. Little: Could that be pretty traumatic to somebody?
Pasco: The..
Det. Little: Of course they're dealing with individuals.
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Pasco: Right.
Det. Little: I understand that.
Pasco: The...the truth of it is that I'm not technically trained enough to
answer that question competently. But I can give you in a...in a
general sense...umm...umm...any Scientology counseling...if
it's...if it's messed up entirely...won't hurt the person ultimately.
I mean it can be corrected. And if there are corrections to be
done, it is you know...it would be standardly supervised...which
all of it is. The...anything that's not done right in the first place
can be fixed in...in a subsequent session.
Det. Little: So you recognize the person that...that was in shock or having
problems after a session?
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Little: For my own information, how would they be treated or tended
to?
Pasco: If they were in shock...
Det. Little: If they were having trouble during an introspection rundown...if
it were obvious some problems were developing...
Pasco: Uh Huh.
Det. Little: How would a counselor or the person doing...treating this
person...how would they handle it...what would they do?
Pasco: Okay.
Det. Little: To help them.
Pasco: In general, the way these correction lists work is they...they are
a series of questions that are asked the person. The
person...you've heard of an...an E-meter I'm sure...
Det Little: Uh Huh.
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Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97
Pasco: And the person is holding the ends of the E-meter. So, as each
question is asked...this...this is called an assessment...the
question is asked...and as...as the question that has the
emotional charge on it is asked, it will register and the person
will mark down the reading. And there's a standard handling for
that. They get the charge off of it...
Det. Little: Right.
Pasco: Which is just...involves asking the person some questions to
look..
Det. Little: Like they...if they were having an emotional experience...
Det. Carrasquillo: Let me interrupt you guys...
Det. Little: Sure.
Det. Carrasquillo: Flip the tape over so...
Det. Little: Alright.
Det. Carrasquillo: Don't lose your train of thought.
Det. Little: Sure.
SIDE TWO OF TAPE
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Side two. The time is 1315. I'm sorry...1515
hours...correct that.
Det. Little: Okay. Mr. Pasco, I don't want to delay with this. It...it really
was from my own...I was curious about this. Say a person were
being counseled during a session...an introspection
rundown...and they begin to say have a mental breakdown or
experience some little mental difficulty, how would it be
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handled? How would they be handled to help them? What
would be done to help them?
Pasco: Okay. See, that question is one that I...I really shouldn't
attempt to answer because I'm not...I'm not technically trained
to...there are a couple of things that I can think of that might be
done, but you really have to ask...you know...somebody who is
highly trained.
Det. Carrasquillo: Let me ask you this. Have you ever participated in an
introspection rundown?
Pasco: Have I had one? I've never...I've never had a need for one.
Det. Carrasquillo: No...no...participated...have you ever...
Pasco: Oh...have I ever given one.
Det. Carrasquillo: Yeah...been involved in one.
Pasco: No, I'm not...I'm not that highly trained. I've done a little bit of
training but not that kind...
Det. Little: You know of anyone that's ever had a problem after a session
like that?
Pasco: No, I can't say that I do.
Det. Little: Okay. I'm sorry...I just wanted to...
Pasco: Okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: Just...just one more thing. When...when you saw Lisa in the
middle of...near the end of November or the beginning of
December 1995, did she appear to you to be going through an
introspection rundown at that time?
Pasco: When I saw her around the pool?
Det. Carrasquillo: Correct.
Pasco: I couldn't have guessed one way or the other about that.
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Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Anymore questions?
Det. Little: Uh Uh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Ron?
Atty. Cacciatore: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. The interview will be terminated at 1517 hours.
Ofc. Reporting Det. J. Carrasquillo/elg ID No. 630
Case Status Active Date Cleared _____________
Clearance Type Exception Type
1. Arrest 1. Extradition declined - 3. Death of Offender
Adult Juvenile 2. AR of primary offense, 4. V/W refused to cooperate
2. Exceptional secondary offense, 5. Prosecution declined
3. Unfounded w/o prosecution 6. Juv/No Custody
Date 4/1/97 SA0 Info
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