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VOLUME VIII TRIAL
TRANSCRIPTS, 2-16-01
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR
PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA
CASE NO. 99-7430-CI-08
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE
ORGANIZATION, INC., a Florida
corporation,
Petitioner,
vs.
ROBERT S. MINTON, JR., ET AL.,
Respondents.
BEFORE: The Honorable THOMAS E. PENICK, JR.
PLACE: Pinellas County Judicial Building
545 First Avenue North
St. Petersburg, Florida
DATE: February 16, 2001
TIME: Commencing at 1:30 P.M.
REPORTED BY: JACKIE L. OSTROM
Court Reporter
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ORDERS TO SHOW CASE
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Pages 1064 - 1181
Volume IX
ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES
P.O. BOX 35
CLEARWATER, FLORIDA
(727) 443-0992
.
APPEARANCES
The Honorable THOMAS E. PENICK, JR.
CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE
F. WALLACE POPE, JR., ESQUIRE
JOHNSON, BLAKELY, POPE ET AL
911 Chestnut
Clearwater, Florida
HELENA KOBRIN, ESQUIRE
MOXON AND KOBRIN
3055 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 900
Los Angeles, California 90010
Attorneys for Church of Scientology Flag Ship
Organization
JOHN MERRETT, ESQUIRE
2716 Herschel Street
Jacksonville, Florida 32205
BRUCE G. HOWIE, ESQUIRE
PIPER, LUDIN, HOWIE AND WERNER
5720 Central Avenue
St. Petersburg, Florida 33707
Attorneys for Robert Minton and
Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc.
. 1066
1 PROCEEDINGS
2 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett, sir, call your
3 next witness.
4 MR. MERRETT: Call Tory Bezazian.
5 Thereupon:
6 TORY BEZAZIAN
7 was called as a witness and having been duly sworn, was
8 examined and testified as follows:
9 DIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. MERRETT:
11 Q Ms. Bezazian, where do you live?
12 A Burbank, California.
13 Q How long have you lived in California?
14 A Since 1969.
15 Q Are you a member of the International
16 Association of Scientologists?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q How long have you been a member of that
19 organization?
20 A Since it was formed.
21 Q And about when was that?
22 A I believe -- I'm not really great with dates
23 but I think it was the 80s and I was also a HASI
24 member before that, which was Hubbard Association of
25 Scientologists International and I was an honorary
. 1067
1 member.
2 Q And were you at one time an active
3 Scientologist?
4 A Was I an active member?
5 Q Yes.
6 A Yes, sir, for 30 years. More than 30 years.
7 Since 1969.
8 Q Ending when?
9 A July, I believe, July 18 or around there, of
10 this year.
11 Q Of 2000?
12 A Uh-huh.
13 Q And what led you to leave Scientology?
14 A It was a combination of things. I had
15 finally got to the top of their, what they call their
16 training and auditing and basically their auditing in
17 1990 and struggled through for seven years, wrote RTC
18 over and over begging them to help me because it
19 wasn't working and -- I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.
20 THE COURT: That's okay. Take your
21 time.
22 MR. MERRETT: Judge. do we have a
23 Kleenex?
24 THE COURT: Yeah.
25 MS. BEZAZIAN: It's okay. I really am
. 1068
1 sorry. Anyway, it wasn't working for me and
2 I had gained 100 pounds and I was sort of a
3 wreck mentally and that and a combination of
4 three of my son's friends killed themselves
5 over --
6 BY MR. MERRETT:
7 Q Were they also in Scientology?
8 A Yeah, and they want to get out and that
9 combination and just recognizing my life was kind of a
10 wreck and I wasn't doing well and I didn't really feel
11 like it was a religion anymore. It said it was a
12 religion, but it wasn't and so I just left.
13 Q You said that you had made it to the top of
14 auditing and training. What was the name of the level
15 that you had reached?
16 A It's called -- well, I was in the middle of
17 OT7 for seven years and then at the end of seven years
18 after being in a great deal of debt from paying huge,
19 huge amounts of money for this level and writing and
20 saying it wasn't working and begging for help, David
21 Miscavige who is the head of the Church of Scientology
22 had a huge event and said that the OT7s which was the
23 level I was, were really only using three out of the
24 79 tools they needed and that we had to pay another
25 $25,000 to get back on the course and do it again and
. 1069
1 start like from the beginning and I wrote him that
2 night and said that's not right.
3 MR. POPE: Your Honor, let me impose
4 this objection. I mean, a little but of
5 background on the witness is certainly
6 appropriate, but none of what she said in the
7 last few minutes has anything to do with the
8 issue before the court and that is did she or
9 did she not violate the court's injunction.
10 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett.
11 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, I'll move on.
12 THE COURT: Thank you.
13 BY MR. MERRETT:
14 Q I got the background. Let me ask you if at
15 the request of any particular division or agency
16 within Scientology you had been involved in any
17 operations regarding critics of Scientology shortly
18 before you left?
19 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor.
20 Immaterial to any issue now before the court.
21 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett.
22 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, the motive and
23 the practices of Scientology with respect to
24 the critics goes to the very heart of this
25 case and the reason that is has been before
. 1070
1 you.
2 MR. POPE: Your Honor, motive doesn't
3 have a thing to do with it. We had a trial
4 at which based on the equities you issued a
5 temporary injunction. The only issue before
6 the court now is did she or did she not
7 violate it.
8 THE COURT: Madam Court Reporter, please
9 read back the question for my benefit.
10 (Thereupon, the question referred to was
11 read by the reporter as above recorded.)
12 Now. Mr. Merrett, where are we going
13 with that question?
14 MR. MERRETT: It is our position that
15 the proceeding that we're here on today, the
16 fact that we have the Director of Special
17 Affairs for Flag, which is the head of OSA
18 here locally, essentially directing these
19 matters, we have RTC/Scientology's in-house
20 counsel, Ms. Kobrin here, we have OSA edited
21 tapes, is that essentially the charges and
22 the vast amounts of money that have been
23 spent bringing these charges are part of
24 Scientology's Fair Game Policy with respect
25 to the persons are opponents of other
. 1071
1 Scientology. That's the actual name of the
2 doctrine promulgated by L. Ron Hubbard for
3 use by Scientology and dealing with its
4 enemies and this is the beginning of our
5 evidence on that point.
6 What we will demonstrate is that each of
7 the witnesses who have testified on behalf
8 of Scientology with the exception of the
9 police officers is authorized to engage in
10 falsehood and conjuring of offense and
11 manufacturing evidence and will be punished
12 in the event that convictions do not result
13 from this proceeding, so it goes to the bias
14 of witnesses, the motive for bringing the
15 case and the very heart of the prosecution
16 that's been brought.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Howie.
18 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I agree with
19 Mr. Merrett's position.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Pope.
21 MR. POPE: Your Honor, again the court
22 has issued an injunction and the question is
23 are they or are they not complying with the
24 injunction and this is an effort to do
25 nothing but create a collateral issue on an
. 1072
1 item that has nothing to do with this and
2 where you are faced with cold hard facts of
3 either they were or they were not complying
4 with the injunction, if we get into this
5 we'll be here for another week.
6 MS. BEZAZIAN: Can I clarify one thing?
7 THE COURT: Just a minute. Just a
8 minute. Hold on. Mr. Merrett, gentlemen,
9 gentlemen, yes, there is an injunction. Yes,
10 there are some orders to show cause and there
11 are allegations that there have been
12 violations.
13 There has been evidence put on that
14 there were violations and this is now the
15 defense's opportunity to show that there
16 were not or as to why there might have been
17 violations.
18 Also, one of the things that the trier
19 of fact must do is search for the truth.
20 Anything that's within the scope and the
21 limits that helps the judge determine truth
22 is relevant and the objection is overruled.
23 Proceed.
24 BY MR. MERRETT:
25 Q Thank you, Your Honor. Were you requested
. 1073
1 by any particular segment or department of Scientology
2 to do anything shortly before you left with respect to
3 critics of Scientology?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q What was it you were asked to do?
6 A I was asked --
7 MR. POPE: Objection. Indefinite as to
8 time; indefinite at to the person who gave
9 her the instructions.
10 THE COURT: Predicate.
11 BY MR. MERRETT:
12 Q Let me as you this. Were you requested by
13 the Office of Special Affairs?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And approximately when did that what
16 happened?
17 A Well, actually from the last two years they
18 asked me to look on the internet and see if there was
19 any basically any confidential materials that were on
20 the internet posted anywhere.
21 Q Who was it that made that request?
22 A Well, there were different people in OSA.
23 Q Can you give us the names of any of them?
24 A One was Goveno (sic) is one person and I
25 forget the other guy's name, but also a volunteer, one
. 1074
1 of the volunteers, Bill Yardey.
2 Q Did --
3 MR. POPE: Your Honor, let me object on
4 the initial grounds. It appears that she is
5 testifying as to matters that occurred in the
6 State of California and had nothing whatever
7 to do with the plaintiff in this case which
8 is Church of Scientology Flag Service
9 Organization, Inc. There has been no
10 conceivable showing of any relevance between
11 what she did in California and this
12 petitioner.
13 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett.
14 MR. MERRETT: Well, Your Honor, as
15 Mr. Pope so eloquently put it yesterday, RTC
16 is a Scientology corporation. All
17 Scientology fronts these organizations
18 operated under the auspices of RTC.
19 It is a single monolithic entity. And I
20 and prepared to prove that if we need to.
21 THE COURT: Proceed.
22 MR. POPE: Your Honor, object to what he
23 just said on the that there is no evidentiary
24 basis whatever in the record.
25 MR. MERRETT: Under the stipulation of
. 1075
1 counsel.
2 THE COURT: Say what?
3 MR. MERRETT: If you recall yesterday,
4 Your Honor, I objected to Mr. Ward being
5 confronted with the judgment from RTC versus
6 Ward.
7 THE COURT: I understand that.
8 MR. MERRETT: Okay.
9 THE COURT: Proceed.
10 MR. MERRETT: Thank you.
11 THE COURT: And Mr. Pope has a
12 continuing objection.
13 BY MR. MERRETT:
14 Q Was there anything in particular that they
15 did in you computer to enable you to do this.
16 A Yes.
17 Q What was that?
18 A They removed what's called a Net Nanny from
19 it, so that I could -- they put a computer -- they pit
20 a little thing on Scientology computers so that
21 basically you can't see any criticism about
22 Scientology. It's a blockage of certain confidential
23 things on the internet or criticisms or testimonies,
24 court documents, things like that.
25 It had a key word list that they put on and
. 1076
1 they did this covertly, not overtly. They didn't tell
2 me they did it. They did it in an event saying they
3 were just coming up to the year 2000 and they we were
4 all going to have web pages and stuff, but in that
5 that we put on the computer is this secret Net Nanny
6 that stops you from actually seeing any criticism of
7 Scientology.
8 Q Did Scientology provide you with the
9 software to put up a web page that said I'm a
10 Scientologist, here's my web?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And the Net Nanny was concealed in that
13 disk?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay.
16 A And it was secretly concealed.
17 Q And somebody came and took that off of your
18 computer so that you could run the web on behalf of
19 Scientology?
20 A They did.
21 Q Okay. And did you do that on behalf of the
22 office of Special Affairs?
23 A Yes.
24 Q For about how long?
25 A Two years, on and off. Not like all the
. 1077
1 time; just on and off.
2 Q Okay. Did you have any other involvement
3 with critics of criticism of Scientology at the behest
4 of Scientology?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What was that?
7 A I was the Executive Director of the
8 Scientology Parishioners League that was operating out
9 of the Vice President of Church of Scientology's
10 office. She was the head of it.
11 Q Okay.
12 A I mean she was my -- she was the person who
13 asked me to be the executive director.
14 Q Okay. And how long did you hold that
15 position?
16 A Last October of 1999 until I left.
17 Q Okay. Did you have for example contact with
18 anybody in this room while acting on behalf of
19 Scientology?
20 A On behalf of it?
21 Q Right.
22 A Yeah, Mark Bunker was filming at a
23 Scientology event and I went out to try to quote
24 unquote, handle him as OSA asked me to go out and
25 handle him.
. 1078
1 Q What does that mean?
2 A Try to get rid of him basically.
3 Q Okay. Did you try to do that?
4 A I did.
5 Q Okay. Now, let me ask you to bring you up
6 to the present, you said last summer you left
7 Scientology?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q Who did you contact when you were ready to
10 leave?
11 A Well, first I contacted a man named Andreas
12 Headland who is in Norway.
13 Q Uh-huh.
14 A And he helped me look at, well, I realized
15 from talking to him that I had strayed a long way from
16 what I had got into Scientology for.
17 Q Uh-huh.
18 A And then once I realized I was going to
19 leave Scientology I didn't know where to go because
20 you couldn't really talk to anyone in Scientology, so
21 I started trying to get in touch with Vaughn Young who
22 I knew was out and I ended up finding Stacy and talked
23 to Stacy and Bob and Jesse and they --
24 Q The people at the Trust?
25 A Yeah, and they offered to help me.
. 1079
1 Q Did they help you?
2 A They did help me greatly.
3 Q What did Scientology do when you left?
4 A They followed me all the way across the
5 country. The Vice President of the Church was at the
6 airport when I went there trying to stop me and she
7 followed me for an hour around the airport telling me
8 not to come to Florida and then I got to Chicago and
9 they had the Office of Special Affairs in Chicago
10 saying don't go and then when I got to Clearwater at
11 1:45 in the morning there were five people there
12 telling me not to talk to them, and two policemen that
13 they LMT had asked to be there in case there was
14 trouble and the police said, you know, she has to
15 decide which group she's going to go with so I talked
16 to my friend for a couple minutes and then I said I
17 pick the LMT and the police actually helped escort us
18 out of the airport, the Tampa police, holding the
19 Scientologists back so that we could get out.
20 Q Had you been given any specific information
21 about Robert Minton and/or the LMT by Scientology?
22 A I had.
23 Q What did Scientology tell you about them?
24 A You know, I don't recall specifically. It
25 was just something very negative about Robert Minton
. 1080
1 to the point where I was out for at least a year
2 promoting to people that he was horrible person and I
3 was sure he was paid by psychiatry to be doing what he
4 was doing which was just something -- I don't even
5 know if I made it up or -- I know they said enough
6 about him that I came to that conclusion that he must
7 be being paid by psychiatry to do it and it wasn't
8 true at all.
9 I finally met him. He's probably one of the
10 kindest people I know and on of the most giving people
11 I know and I think many Scientologists do have a bad
12 image of him and it's totally incorrect.
13 Q Let me ask you this. Psychiatry is sort of
14 the archetypal in the mind of Scientology, is
15 archetypal enemy?
16 A Totally. Like a devil.
17 Q Okay. In fact in Battlefield Earth, the bad
18 guys are called Psych Orbs; is that right?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Has the Lisa McPherson Trust given you any
21 money?
22 A I think at the most Stacy gave my a thousand
23 dollars.
24 Q Okay. And why was that?
25 A Because I was broke. She helped me.
. 1081
1 Q Okay. Now, have you received what is called
2 a declare?
3 MS. BEZAZIAN: I have been declared,
4 Your Honor. You saw the video with me with
5 me with the horns on, those red horns. Did
6 you notice that I had on red horns in any of
7 the videos?
8 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am.
9 MS. BEZAZIAN: That's why I wore them,
10 because when they declare someone it's worse
11 than the devil. Like one of my friends for
12 30 years will talk to me. They all hang up
13 the phone on me. Literally, not my best
14 friend will talk to me; none of them.
15 BY MR. MERRETT:
16 Q What is that policy called where
17 Scientologists will not talk to somebody that's been
18 declared? Is that disconnection?
19 A Disconnection.
20 Q And is that a requirement? Is that the
21 deal, you're disconnected --
22 A It is a requirement once you're declared a
23 suppressive person they can't speak to you or they get
24 in really big trouble.
25 Q Does that extend even to your own family?
. 1082
1 A Well, I really don't want to talk about my
2 own family.
3 Q Okay. Now --
4 A But I am in the middle of a divorce
5 proceeding after 26 years and it is directly related
6 to this.
7 Q Okay. You came to Clearwater, got in touch
8 with the Lisa McPherson Trust, got out of Scientology,
9 right?
10 A Uh-huh.
11 Q Let's look at December and January when you
12 were picketing and let's talk first, you saw the
13 videotape where you were walking down the east side of
14 the Clearwater Bank Building. You know what I'm
15 talking about?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q Okay. And this would be the Coachman
18 Building?
19 A Uh-huh.
20 Q And you're walking along this way wearing a
21 black and white plaid shirt; you remember that?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q As you were walking alongside the Clearwater
24 Bank Building down Ft. Harrison Avenue, what were you
25 doing?
. 1083
1 A I was basically just trying to get from LMT
2 to the Ft. Harrison to picket.
3 Q Were you picketing?
4 A No, not at all.
5 Q Was there any particular reason that you
6 were coming down this side of the Clearwater Bank
7 Building instead of the Watterson Street side?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Why was that?
10 A On the Watterson side you usually run into
11 Scientologists and it's a bit of a problem so I
12 thought I'll go the other way because the windows are
13 all blocked off, I won't be bothering anyone and I can
14 just walk straight through over to Ft. Harrison
15 Q Now, as you were coming this way did you
16 walk any kind of a circuit back and forth at all here?
17 A Not at all, not. It was straight. I was a
18 walking straight through to the hotel.
19 Q Before you got where you were going to
20 picket, did you at any time retrace your steps
21 alongside the Clearwater Bank Building?
22 A No, sir.
23 Q Now, you continued on down and picketed
24 wherever you were picketing, right?
25 A I picketed in front of the Ft. Harrison
. 1084
1 Hotel.
2 Q Okay. That is across the street?
3 A Across the street.
4 Q Then we see on the videotape is it the same
5 day that you're coming back that way with Jeff
6 Jacobsen?
7 A I think so.
8 Q Okay. You remember the events that are
9 shown on the videotape where the green car pulls into
10 the driveway?
11 A Uh-huh.
12 Q I want to focus on that and if you would
13 tell the judge how it came to be that you were talking
14 to the people in the car? How did that event start?
15 A Basically, I was walking down the street
16 with my signs and a car pulled in and asked me
17 something about my horns and I stopped to talk to them
18 and then stepped back.
19 Q Did you stop the car?
20 A No, they stopped and asked me something.
21 Q Did you beckon to them?
22 A No.
23 Q Did you wave them down?
24 A No.
25 Q Okay. You remember the UPS van?
. 1085
1 A I do.
2 Q Coming through?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Was there room for other vehicle to pass in
5 and out of that driveway?
6 A Plenty, as witnessed by the UPS van going
7 through.
8 Q Now, you heard the testimony earlier about a
9 supposed van which is off camera which is supposed to
10 be stopped down here someplace waiting to turn in?
11 A There wasn't a van stopped.
12 Q Okay.
13 A Because I would have moved if there was.
14 Q Let me ask you about that. Why would you
15 have moved had a --
16 A That was part of the thing which is that we
17 weren't supposed to block traffic or block people or
18 things like that.
19 Q Okay. When you approached the end of the
20 driveway were you coming up here in order to talk to
21 somebody or stand in the driveway?
22 A No, not at all.
23 Q Were you just passing --
24 A I was heading through, yes.
25 Q Okay. We heard here about, I guess it was
. 1086
1 Officer Butterfield, the first witness who testified,
2 talking about having talked to you five times on the
3 first day of the injunction?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And did you talk to him several times?
6 A We dis speak several times. Your Honor,
7 what happened that day was that there actually was a
8 bit of confusion as to which area across from the
9 Coachman we could actually be in and the
10 Scientologists kept coming over and saying I couldn't
11 be here, I couldn't be here, so then the policeman and
12 I, Officer Butterfield and I would talk and it was
13 okay, you can be over here and then they would come
14 and say, no, you can't be there and that's why it kept
15 changing because of their -- and they finally said
16 they owned that alley which I believe we both agreed
17 they didn't own that alley, but it was --
18 Q Let me stop you right there so we all know
19 what you're talking about. If this is the Coachman
20 Building, is this the alley that you're talking about
21 here?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay. And this is the back driveway to the
24 Coachman parking lot?
25 A That's correct.
. 1087
1 Q Okay. And at one point Scientologists were
2 claiming to own the alley?
3 A Definitely.
4 Q Okay. Now, that alley actually goes all the
5 way through the block, doesn't it?
6 A Right.
7 Q Or you can make a dog leg back here behind
8 this building and come out on, I think it's Garden
9 Street?
10 A That's right, and they normally bring their
11 buses through the front way, but because we were there
12 they started then bringing their buses through the
13 back way and saying I couldn't be there because they
14 were bringing their buses through.
15 Q Okay.
16 A And they owned the alley. You see what
17 happened there?
18 THE COURT: Uh-huh.
19 BY MR. MERRETT:
20 Q Was there ever a time when Officer
21 Butterfield or any other police officer asked you to
22 do something or stop doing something that you declined
23 to obey?
24 A Never. I was in full agreement with the
25 judge and the injunction and I was trying to do my
. 1088
1 best to with my full intention to do what they asked
2 and what should be done.
3 Q What about when you had the discussion --
4 you saw the -- you can see the film I guess it's from
5 the spy camera on the Coachman Building of you talking
6 to the redheaded female police officer?
7 A Right, yeah.
8 Q Did you do what she asked you then?
9 A I did. I came walking down the street and
10 she said I know you're not picketing, but because your
11 signs are up it may look like you're picketing so you
12 need to hold your signs down when you're walking to
13 the Ft. Harrison, in which case I put the signs down.
14 Q You did at that point?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Was there ever any time when you did
17 anything which you believed to be contrary to the
18 judge's order?
19 A I didn't.
20 Q So far as you are able to recall, have you
21 done anything contrary to the injunction?
22 A I have not, not that I know of and I -- no,
23 I haven't.
24 Q Okay. Did you ever have any intention of
25 not doing what the judge directed you to do?
. 1089
1 A Never.
2 Q What got you started picketing?
3 A Well, basically there are is certain
4 things -- my biggest thing has to the family and
5 disconnection. I don't believe that a family -- I
6 believe that parents should be able to speak to their
7 children no matter what is going on.
8 I don't think a Church has a right to
9 separate parents from their children and that is
10 honestly why I was picketing, because I have met a
11 number of families where they haven't been able to
12 speak to their children for years and years and I
13 cannot say it enough, if I can legally get this passed
14 where they can't do that, I will. I am so much
15 against it.
16 Q Let me ask you this. You heard Mr. Henson
17 testify that he had a lengthy pow-wow with a high
18 ranking policeman that led to his sticking to the
19 orange zone's picketing; you remember that testimony?
20 A A little bit.
21 Q That he said the second time he talked to a
22 policeman the policeman said here's what we're doing
23 and that's what he did?
24 A Right.
25 Q Were you present?
. 1090
1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q During that discussion?
3 A Yes, uh-huh.
4 Q Do you remember the policeman laying out
5 here's what we're doing. We're going to write police
6 reports if you're not named and we may arrest you if
7 you are named?
8 A Right.
9 Q After that did you ever see Mr. Henson
10 picketing outside of an orange zone?
11 A No, he fully followed it.
12 MR. MERRETT: Okay. If I can have just
13 a second, Your Honor?
14 MS. BEZAZIAN: Can I explain one thing
15 about Fair Game?
16 BY MR. MERRETT:
17 Q What do you know about Fair Game?
18 A Basically --
19 MR. POPE: Same objection. Your Honor.
20 It wasn't asked. It's a volunteered
21 statement on the part of the witness. I
22 object.
23 MS. BEZAZIAN: I'm asking to explain it
24 to Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am. Hold on. I
. 1091
1 understand, ma'am, but, Mr. Merrett?
2 BY MR. MERRETT:
3 Q Do you know what Fair Game is?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q What is it?
6 THE COURT: Objection noted for the
7 record. Overruled.
8 BY MR. MERRETT:
9 Q What is it?
10 A Okay, Fair Game is a policy that was written
11 by Mr. Hubbard years ago that says that they can lie,
12 cheat, trick, do anything they want to to someone that
13 they consider a bad person. They're Fair Game.
14 Now, literally and truly, last year at this
15 time I would have given anyone in this courtroom
16 $5,000 to say there is no Fair Game and that includes
17 the young man in the back, you all over there and each
18 one of you, because I honestly did not believe there
19 was. And now that I am out of the Church of
20 Scientology I know that there is definitely Fair Game
21 and that what happened to me was part of Fair Game.
22 Q Let me ask you something. Is there a
23 connection as part of the Fair Game Policy and the
24 doctrines surrounding it between these two words?
25 A Yes.
. 1092
1 MR. POPE: Your honor, this is --
2 MS. BEZAZIAN: -- there is.
3 THE COURT: Hold on.
4 MR. POPE: Objection.
5 THE COURT: Just a minute, just a
6 minute, just a minute. Hold on, hold on,
7 hold on.
8 MR. POPE: Your Honor, this is --
9 THE COURT: Mr. Pope, hold on. Okay,
10 now I think it got quiet. You're it.
11 MR. POPE: This implicates our motion in
12 limine and the law that we set forth in
13 there. I don't know if now -- I mean, what
14 she is testifying to right now doesn't prove
15 or disprove a thing with regard to her
16 compliance with this.
17 Now, if the court insists on letting her
18 do this, I think we need to argue this
19 motion, the legal grounds that we set forth
20 in the motion in limine.
21 MR. MERRETT: We would totally argue
22 again it's grossly untimely. This thing was
23 supposed to over last Sunday.
24 THE COURT: Yeah. Let's do this.
25 (Whereupon, a pause in the proceedings took
. 1093
1 place.)
2 Part of what this witness has talked
3 about has come out during many of the
4 proceeding hearings that I have had in this
5 case, long before present counsel was even
6 involved in this case for both sides. I
7 guess, the only less say corporate member
8 would be Mr. Howie. He's been here for a
9 while.
10 I heard a lot of this before. Where
11 we're going right now I think may be a
12 little further out and a little deeper than
13 we really need to go.
14 Let's get back up here on the track and
15 let's get back to the signs and the orange,
16 out of the orange zone, up, down, and
17 certainly as far as bias and prejudice is
18 concerned, I understand.
19 Now, that's all I'm going to say on
20 this.
21 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir. Then as to this
22 witness I have no further questions.
23 THE COURT: Mr. Howie, it's your
24 witness, sir.
25 MR. HOWIE: No questions, Your Honor.
. 1094
1 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Howie.
2 Mr. Pope.
3 CROSS-EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. POPE:
5 Q Thank you, Your Honor. Ms. Bezazian, you
6 testified I think that as you were being pursued
7 across the country by these people after you decided
8 to leave the Church and you landed in Tampa and five
9 people came to meet you there; is that right?
10 A Well, actually it was eight.
11 Q Okay.
12 A Because there were five Scientologists and
13 Mr. Minton and Stacy Brooks and Jesse Prince and two
14 policeman.
15 Q Wasn't your husband among those?
16 A No.
17 Q Your husband wasn't there to meet you?
18 A No, sir.
19 Q All right. Your husband is a Scientologist,
20 correct?
21 A I really don't want to speak about my
22 husband at this time.
23 Q Can you answer that question?
24 A I don't know, sir. You've have to call him
25 and ask him.
. 1095
1 Q You don't know?
2 A No, sir, I don't know.
3 Q You and he are estranged now?
4 A Sir, if I went into what happened with my
5 husband I really don't think you want to go there.
6 Let's just leave it be for right now.
7 Q Ms. Bezazian?
8 A If you're talking importance, you're saying
9 what a Fair Game isn't important when you --
10 Q Excuse me.
11 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Hold on.
12 Hold on. Let's do this. Let's do this.
13 Attorneys approach the bench.
14 (Thereupon, the following proceedings were
15 had out of the presence of the audience:)
16 THE COURT: What I want to do, we're
17 getting down to some key witnesses and I do
18 understand that there are feelings here,
19 strong both ways.
20 What I'm going to do is ask -- I'm going
21 to take a little break here and ask you to
22 talk to the witness and I give you
23 permission to talk to the witnesses on the
24 stand and explain that when there is a
25 question and answer the question and if
. 1096
1 there is a need for elaboration that you
2 will have cross or redirect or something
3 like that, but I think you all need to have
4 a chance to object.
5 Okay. Now, I'm going to ask you all to
6 talk to Mr. Minton. I'm sure he's going to
7 come up and maybe you can explain that him.
8 We'll take a short break so you can talk
9 to the witnesses, please.
10 This will be a short break, but just try
11 to talk to them and tell them to listen to
12 the question, okay.
13 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I understand
14 that.
15 THE COURT: But I'm concerned. Talk to
16 your clients. Tell your people to stay calm.
17 MR. POPE: All right.
18 THE COURT: They may not like my
19 rulings, but I do have maps to Lakeland.
20 MR. POPE: All right.
21 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken, after
22 which the proceedings continued.)
23 THE COURT: Let's try this. Mr. Pope,
24 go ahead, sir.
25 MR. POPE: May I approach the witness or
. 1097
1 hold it just a minute. Let me just ask her a
2 question?
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 BY MR. POPE:
5 Q I'm a little ahead of myself. Ms. Bezazian,
6 I wrote down something you said during your direct
7 examination. I think I got it accurately. You said I
8 was in full agreement with the judge and the
9 injunction. Do you remember saying that?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q And that's true, isn't it?
12 A Well, I was trying to do my best with it,
13 even though I know what you're going to say, but I'm
14 happy to explain it.
15 MR. POPE: All right. Let me -- may I
16 approach the witness?
17 THE COURT: Certainly, sir.
18 BY MR. POPE:
19 Q Let me ask you to take a look at this, if
20 you would?
21 (Whereupon, documents were reviewed.)
22 A Which part of it?
23 Q All of it. Start at the upper left had
24 where is says MistMagoo 55?
25 A What is the date of this?
. 1098
1 Q Well, it says on its face, December 6, 2000.
2 A All right.
3 Q Is MistMagoo 55 your internet ID?
4 A Yes, at AOL.Com.
5 Q At AOL.Com?
6 THE COURT: What is that?
7 MS. BEZAZIAN: My internet ID.
8 THE COURT: I understand that. Spell
9 it.
10 MR. POPE: M-I-S-T-M-A-G-O-O-5-5.
11 THE COURT: Okay. MistMagoo55.
12 BY MR. POPE:
13 Q And at the bottom is says Tory/Magoo, really
14 dancing now?
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q Was this a posting you made on the --
17 A Yes.
18 Q December 6, 2000?
19 A Uh-huh.
20 Q Take a look at paragraph eight?
21 A I see it.
22 Q Okay.
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q Let me go with that with you?
25 A Sure.
. 1099
1 Q Having the cult go through all this effort
2 to get bunches of people, myself included, in this
3 bogus injunction?
4 A Uh-huh.
5 Q Knowing they were hoping it would stop us as
6 it gave limitations to where we could picket?
7 A Uh-huh.
8 Q The truth is we loved it. It protects us,
9 which is extremely important as they were getting
10 quite violent, beating of BM a few months ago. It
11 didn't stop re stopping us. We were everywhere and
12 that was great to see?
13 A It was.
14 Q And that's the bogus injunction you have
15 described?
16 A Is there something I can answer on this?
17 Q You described that as a bogus injunction?
18 A No, sir. I want to explain that.
19 Q Let me ask you one more question. Do you
20 remember when you were standing on the south side of
21 Pierce Street with the megaphone yelling into the
22 Scientology premises there?
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q You called it a stupid injunction, then,
25 didn't you?
. 1100
1 A I did, but there was a reason I said that,
2 sir.
3 Q Well, if you would like to tell us why it's
4 bogus and stupid, please tell us?
5 A I really would and I think you would be
6 interested in it. When I left the Church of
7 Scientology I actually called OSA in four different
8 times in the evening.
9 Having been a Scientologist for 30 years at
10 the top of the bridge, highly trained, having spent
11 over $100,000 getting there, I felt I was owed a
12 little bit of respect from my Church to try to help
13 handle the situation regarding the critics and
14 Scientology and the upset that was going on. And I
15 called OSA in and I said I want to talk to Mike Render
16 who is one of head the of OSA or at least he's way up
17 there as an executive, and Ray Mindoff who I felt was
18 the technical terminal who could help out. And I
19 wanted to get together and have a round table -- are
20 you listening, sir?
21 Q Yes.
22 A And have a round table talk --
23 THE COURT: What's important,
24 Ms. Bezazian, is not so much whether he's
25 listening, but I am.
. 1101
1 MS. BEZAZIAN: Good.
2 THE COURT: So that we know who's in
3 charge.
4 MS. BEZAZIAN: Thank you, sir. So I
5 wanted to have a round table talk between the
6 critics and the Church of Scientology and
7 they never once called me back. So I felt
8 this injunction was bogus in that they are a
9 group that is always promoting the can handle
10 things with communication and together
11 communication is the universal solvent and I
12 felt they had wasted the judge's time and
13 energy having to pull in a court judge to
14 make a ruling on where we could stand versus
15 a Church that is a supposed to be good at
16 communication, just sitting down working out
17 some basic rules that everyone would be happy
18 with and that's why I said it was bogus.
19 Not that the injunction is, but the fact
20 that they had to bother a judge to get these
21 rulings happening, that I felt was.
22 Now, granted I wasn't at the original
23 hearings, so I didn't hear what all went
24 with that and perhaps that was my own
25 ignorance.
. 1102
1 BY MR. POPE:
2 Q And speaking of the injunction in paragraph
3 eight you said it didn't work at all. We were
4 everywhere and that was great to see?
5 A Well, Church of Scientology stopping people
6 from communicating didn't work at all, no. They did
7 communicate and it worked very well and I was very
8 happy with the injunction in that sense.
9 Q And Officer Butterfield, when he conferred
10 with you those several times that you heard him
11 testify about, you did discuss that all you had to do
12 was put your picket sign down, did you?
13 A No, sir, we did not. We actually discussed
14 locations on where I could talk. The officer that I
15 talked about where I to put my signs down was the
16 lady.
17 Q So Officer Butterfield never told you --
18 A I'm not saying he did or not. I don't
19 remember, but I'm saying if he did, the main things he
20 and I discussed were location.
21 Q So, what -- if I heard you correctly, you
22 can't remember if Officer Butterfield told you to put
23 the sign down; is this right?
24 A I'm not sure. Honestly, I'm not. The main
25 thing that we discussed was which locations I could
. 1103
1 stand in.
2 Q And you did hear him say from that very
3 chair that he in fact discussed that with you. You
4 heard him say that, didn't you?
5 A I don't remember honestly.
6 Q Okay. And you don't deny that you've walked
7 the entire length of the Bank of Clearwater Building
8 with the two picket signs up?
9 A No, sir.
10 Q You saw --
11 A I explained that. As soon as I ran into the
12 policewoman who said put them down, I put them down
13 and I was traveling to a place where I was going to
14 picket. I was not picketing.
15 Q And the policewoman who was the second
16 police officer you had discussed picketing with, the
17 first being Officer Butterfield, correct?
18 A I'm not sure which was first or second, sir.
19 Q You indicated that you thought that
20 Ms. Brooks gave you a thousand dollars; is that right?
21 Is that your testimony about financial --
22 A That's correct.
23 Q Is that the only money you've received from
24 Ms. Brooks?
25 A No.
. 1104
1 Q Tell me -- let's hear about the money you've
2 received in Ms. Brooks or the LMT or Mr. Minton?
3 A What is the relevance of that. I don't get
4 it.
5 MR. POPE: Your Honor.
6 MS. BEZAZIAN: All right. I'm sorry,
7 she gave me $300 more and that's it. That's
8 all. One time last where $1,000 and then she
9 gave me $300 later.
10 BY MR. POPE:
11 Q And was that her personal money or was the
12 LMT money?
13 A You'll have to ask her.
14 Q How about payment of expenses such as air
15 fare and that sort of thing. Have they done that for
16 you?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q In addition to cash money?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q How many dollars worth of expenses have they
21 paid for you?
22 A That I don't know.
23 Q Who is paying it?
24 A As s far as what?
25 Q Is LMT paying it?
. 1105
1 A You know, I can't honestly and I'm not
2 trying to be tricky it. I really don't know. I've
3 talked to Stacy Brooks and she said, listen, you can
4 come stay with us. I'm doing this because when I left
5 the Church of Scientology no one would help me. I'm
6 happy to help you, so she gave me a ticket. Whether
7 that was paid by a check from LMT or by Stacy herself,
8 I don't know.
9 Q So, while you're in Clearwater are you
10 residing with Ms. Brooks?
11 A No.
12 Q No. Where are you staying?
13 A I'm staying with Heather.
14 Q Okay. And is anybody -- who's paying for
15 that?
16 A Who's paying for Heather?
17 Q Who's paying for your room?
18 A No one.
19 Q No one?
20 A I mean, you know, I don't have a financial
21 arrangement on that where I know, i know that some
22 friends are letting me stay at their place. That's
23 what's happening.
24 Q And when you say Heather, you mean Heather
25 Bennett?
. 1106
1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q And what is her position with the LMT?
3 A She is, I believe she is working with the
4 web page.
5 Q Okay. Is she an employee of the LMT?
6 A She is.
7 Q Okay. Now, as I understand it, you said
8 that you had been declared; is that right?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q And it sounded to me, the way you described
11 it, like it might be what the Amish call shunning; is
12 that what it is?
13 A That's how it feels when no one will talk to
14 you after 30 years of friendship. It does feel a bit
15 like shunning.
16 Q Okay. Are you familiar at all with the
17 Roman Catholic practice of excommunication?
18 A I've heard of. I was a Catholic. I've
19 never seen anything like this happen in a Catholic
20 church, ever.
21 Q Okay. Have you ever been excommunicated?
22 A No, sir, I have not and I have known people
23 who were and they were never treated like this.
24 Q As I understand it, I was trying to
25 understand what you did on the internet back in
. 1107
1 California. You did research on internet; is that
2 right?
3 A I basically poked around on the internet
4 looking for upper level materials.
5 Q You were doing research on the internet,
6 correct?
7 A If you want to call it research, that's what
8 it is. It was looking around for upper level
9 materials.
10 MR. POPE: May I have a moment, Your
11 Honor?
12 THE COURT: You can have it.
13 (Whereupon, a pause in the proceedings took
14 place.)
15 BY MR. POPE:
16 Q Ms. Bezazian, I overlooked asking you the
17 questions about the driveway of the Coachman Building.
18 As to that, you were a party it this and you got a
19 copy of injunction, didn't you?
20 A I had seen the injunction.
21 Q Did you read it over?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Okay. Did you read that part of it that
24 says stay ten feet back from the entranceways?
25 A Yes.
. 1108
1 Q All right, and the video does show you,
2 right, picketing right in the middle of that --
3 A No, sir.
4 Q -- area of the picket, does it not?
5 A I'm not picketing. I was walking from one
6 location to another and a car stopped me.
7 Q And your picket was up, was it not?
8 A Pardon me?
9 Q Your picket was up?
10 A Yeah, just like my signed were up as I was
11 walking.
12 Q Okay. And what's the difference between
13 your signs being up and walking and picketing?
14 A Picketing is usually back and forth from one
15 location on front of it. You go back and you go forth
16 and go and forth. Transportation is from one location
17 to another.
18 Q In your view picketing involves a pendulum
19 type movement, right?
20 A Sure, yeah.
21 Q If you're just walking a straight line,
22 that's not picketing?
23 A Well, have you have to travel in Clearwater
24 from one location to another. The Lisa McPherson
25 Trust to the Ft. Harrison you have to travel along an
. 1109
1 area to get to it.
2 Q Let me ask you this question. Where is it,
3 what is the address of Ms. Bennett's --
4 A 33 North Ft. Harrison.
5 Q So she lives at 33 North Harrison; in the
6 Lisa McPherson Trust Building?
7 A Upstairs.
8 Q There is an apartment up there?
9 A Uh-huh.
10 Q And that's where you're staying?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q All right. And I asked you about money from
13 the LMT but I failed to ask you whether you had gotten
14 any payments from Mr. Minton. Have you?
15 A No, sir.
16 MR. POPE: All right. Thank you.
17 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Pope.
18 Mr. Merrett.
19 MR. POPE: Your Honor, did I offer into
20 evidence that piece? I may have overlooked
21 that. May I offer that into evidence?
22 MS. BEZAZIAN: Sure.
23 THE COURT: Thank you.
24 MS. BEZAZIAN: You're welcome.
25 THE COURT: Objections.
. 1110
1 MR. MERRETT: No, Your Honor.
2 MR. HOWIE: No, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Merrett, go
4 ahead, sir.
5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. MERRETT:
7 Q Thank you. Ma'am, I want to start off first
8 with the issue about you being declared. Was the
9 reason that you were declared your association with
10 the Lisa McPherson Trust?
11 A Well, part of it was, yes.
12 Q And your association with Mr. Minton?
13 A Part of it was stated that I was connected
14 to them.
15 Q Okay. So, we know that as far as
16 Scientologists are concerned, association with the
17 Lisa McPherson Trust or Mr. Minton or Ms. Brooks makes
18 you an untouchable, right?
19 A Well, it's definitely part of the declare.
20 Q Okay. Now, with regard to the internet
21 posting that was put in there, I want to talk to you
22 about some of the things that you say there, the one
23 that was just received in evidence.
24 You say in paragraph one that you are free
25 to say whatever you want to say and feel and not in
. 1111
1 worry about ethics?
2 THE COURT: Just a minute. Let me give
3 this to her.
4 MS. BEZAZIAN: Thank you, sir.
5 THE COURT: Go ahead, sir.
6 BY MR. MERRETT:
7 Q In paragraph one you say I'm out of
8 Scientology and was on this side free to say whatever
9 I want to say and feel and not worry about ethics or
10 getting declared. I am declared. What do you mean
11 not worry about ethics.
12 A Well, for years -- I have a condition called
13 epilepsy and in Scientology if have you have an
14 illness they consider there is something wrong with
15 you and they call it Potential Trouble Source.
16 Q PTS?
17 A PTS.
18 Q Lisa McPherson was a PTS type three, right?
19 A Yes, they declared her that.
20 Q Okay.
21 A For 30 years they were always trying to say
22 that I was PTS and needed handling and finally I'm
23 declared. I was an SD, which is the worst thing, so
24 it was sort of, all right, fine, I'm not PTS. I'm an
25 SD.
. 1112
1 Q Let me ask you this. Was Scientology
2 treating your epilepsy or dealing with your epilepsy
3 as am ethical problem on your part?
4 MR. POPE: Excuse me, Your Honor. It
5 seems, that question has no probative value
6 of any issue in the case.
7 MR. MERRETT: But Your Honor, we have a
8 document in evidence that we need to explain.
9 THE COURT: Proceed.
10 MS. BEZAZIAN: Yes.
11 BY MR. MERRETT:
12 Q Was Scientology treating your epilepsy as an
13 ethical lapse on your part?
14 A Well, PTSness is part of ethics, so in that
15 sense, yes.
16 Q Okay. Now, paragraph three you mention
17 something about BM's head on a pipe. What is that?
18 A Oh, he was carrying a sign that said no OTs
19 there and it had a stick and at the end was a head of
20 David Miscavige and he has an expression your head
21 is -- Hubbard had an expression your head is on the
22 pipe, meaning, I believe it's that you're in trouble.
23 Q Okay, and I assume this was actually a
24 depiction of Mr. Miscavige?
25 A It was a photographer, yes.
. 1113
1 Q Okay. So --
2 A It was a picketing sign.
3 Q Okay. Now, in paragraph eight about the
4 middle you say with regard to the injunction that
5 truth is we loved it.
6 A Uh-huh.
7 Q Was that the consensus of the people that
8 you were picketing with regarding the injunction?
9 A We all were very happy with it because it
10 did create some safety boundaries for all of us.
11 Q Were you present during some of the
12 picketing back in July of 2000 when the mobs of
13 Scientologists turn up and milled around?
14 A I was.
15 Q Okay. And I take it this was a pleasant
16 improvement over that?
17 A This was a great improvement over that and I
18 was extremely embarrassed earlier seeing how they
19 acted and knowing that I probably would have been one
20 if them. It was a definite improvement, yes.
21 Q Okay. And again to reiterate, Mr. Pope
22 asked you about your dealings with Officer
23 Butterfield.
24 Was there ever a time when a police officer
25 told you or asked you to do something that you didn't
. 1114
1 do it?
2 A No.
3 MR. MERRETT: Okay. I don't have
4 anything further.
5 THE COURT: Let me just go back to
6 something. What were the acronyms you were
7 using? PTS; is that right.
8 MS. BEZAZIAN: Yes.
9 THE COURT: What does that mean?
10 MS. BEZAZIAN: Potential Trouble Source.
11 THE COURT: Okay. All right.
12 Mr. Howie.
13 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I have no
14 questions.
15 THE COURT: Mr. Pope.
16 MR. POPE: No further questions, Your
17 Honor.
18 THE COURT: Ma'am, you may step down and
19 have a seat back out there.
20 Attorneys, approach the bench
21 momentarily. I don't need the court
22 reporter. Just attorneys real quick.
23 (Discussion was had off the record.)
24 Let's take a break. We'll take about a
25 20 minute break right now and we'll come and
. 1115
1 we'll get going with the rest of them.
2 Thank you all.
3 (A short recess took place after which the
4 proceedings continued.)
5 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett, call your next
6 witness.
7 MR. MERRETT: Yes, Your Honor. Actually
8 at this point I would be asking the court to
9 take judicial notice of some judicial
10 determinations regarding one of the parties
11 to this case and if I ask Mr. Oliver to come
12 up and ask me to help pass these over.
13 The first is the opinion of the Ninth
14 Circuit Court of Appeals in Religious
15 Technology Center versus Scott. It is found
16 at 1996 U.S. at Lexis 8954. I do not have a
17 standard reporter's cite, however I have
18 furnished a copy of the opinion.
19 On the third page of the opinion that
20 you have before you when respect to RTC, the
21 Religious Technology Center.
22 MR. POPE: Excuse me, Your Honor, before
23 he goes into this can I point out a couple
24 things? First, this is an unpublished
25 opinion of the Ninth Circuit. If you see up
. 1116
1 at the top it says notice on the front page
2 right under the date, Rules of the Federal
3 Circuit Court of Appeals may limit citations
4 of unpublished opinions. Please refers to
5 rules of the United States Court of Appeals
6 for this circuit.
7 It seems to me that we need to have
8 those rules here as to whether anybody is
9 going to rely on this and secondly, Church
10 of Scientology Flag Service Organization is
11 not a party to this action.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett.
13 MR. MERRETT: Well, Your Honor, two
14 points. The notation there is of course
15 fairly routine and deals with rules regarding
16 use if this were for precedential value in
17 the, within the Ninth Circuit. Otherwise it
18 is entirely available to you and again as
19 Mr. Pope so eloquently pointed yesterday in
20 response to my objection regarding RTC versus
21 Ward, RTC and Scientology are essentially the
22 same thing.
23 THE COURT: Why are you asking me to
24 take judicial notice of that?
25 MR. MERRETT: Well, there are findings
. 1117
1 with regard to the litigation practice,
2 approach and the dealings of Scientology with
3 its critics made in this opinion.
4 MR. POPE: In the first place, I wish to
5 point out that the statement that Mr. Merrett
6 has attributed to me, I said that RTC was a
7 separate nonprofit corporation, but it was
8 related to the Church of Scientology. I
9 didn't say they were the same thing.
10 MR. MERRETT: I would simply point out
11 that Mr. Pope was quite insistent there was
12 sufficient identification --
13 THE COURT: Let me ask you something.
14 This is an opinion of a federal court?
15 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir.
16 THE COURT: It's been published?
17 MR. MERRETT: It is not published in the
18 Reporter. It is however published through
19 the computer reporting services, through
20 Lexis and West Law.
21 THE COURT: Which was an opinion
22 actually entered in a federal case?
23 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: All right. I'll take
25 judicial notice of it.
. 1118
1 MR. MERRETT: If you would, Your Honor,
2 just note for the what I'm citing to you
3 specifically. If you look at the sixth page
4 of the copy of the opinion that you have
5 there referring here to an award of attorney
6 fees against RTC.
7 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor, on the
8 basis that the court has already ruled, as I
9 understood it with our last to the witness
10 before that, that we're supposed to be
11 sticking to the factual issues regarding the
12 breach of the injunction, that the whole
13 business of litigation tactics and that sort
14 of stuff was familiar to the court, that it
15 has been presented to you back before
16 Mr. Merrett or even I got into the case.
17 THE COURT: Right.
18 MR. POPE: We're dealing now with an
19 injunction and whether it should be violated
20 and this opinion is just one more effort to
21 revisit and regrind that same coin.
22 THE COURT: He can put it in. I'm just
23 going to press on. I'll give it the weight I
24 feel it deserves.
25 MR. MERRETT: Thank you, Your Honor.
. 1119
1 Essentially there was a finding that
2 RTC --
3 MR. POPE: Excuse me, Your Honor. I
4 thought you told him to press on.
5 THE COURT: Yes. In other words, it's
6 in. I'll take judicial notice. The judge
7 made a ruling.
8 I've already told you that I'm aware of
9 what you're trying to get in. I heard this
10 before and let's -- I'll let you build your
11 record, but go ahead.
12 MR. MERRETT: The next one is Church of
13 Scientology in California versus Department
14 of State.
15 THE COURT: Same everything?
16 MR. MERRETT: Pretty much, except it
17 specifically adverts to the Fair Game Policy
18 and abuse of its opponents.
19 MR. POPE: Same objection, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Same everything. Same
21 ruling, same continuing objections and all
22 that.
23 MR. MERRETT: The third is In Re: B and
24 G Wards, an opinion by Justice Lady of the
25 Royal Courts of Justice in London from 1984.
. 1120
1 MS. KOBRIN: London?
2 MR. MERRETT: It's making specific
3 findings regarding Scientology and its
4 practices as regards to those who oppose it.
5 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor, on the
6 basis that there is nothing really here
7 whatever to identify this. This is a typed
8 up sheet. We don't know what it is, where it
9 came from. It's apparently from a foreign
10 court. We have no means of authenticating
11 this at all and I object to it.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett, this -- when I
13 look at this quickly here, I'm going to need
14 something better than this.
15 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir. Here's the -- I
16 only have one copy. It's the appellate
17 opinion upholding Justice Lady's finding that
18 Scientology lies whenever it is convenient.
19 THE COURT: Slow down.
20 MR. POPE: Objection and move to strike
21 on the basis that that's his comment with
22 regard to -- unsupported comment with
23 respect --
24 THE COURT: Wait a minute. I
25 understand. Take a look at it and see
. 1121
1 whatever it is. Take a minute and look at it
2 now. Look at it.
3 (Whereupon, documents were reviewed.)
4 MR. POPE: Your Honor, it appears to be
5 some form on internet printout. It doesn't
6 have anymore authenticity than the last sheet
7 that he gave you so we object to that on the
8 basis that it's a --
9 THE COURT: It's a what.
10 MR. POPE: My recollection is that it's
11 a foreign something or other, legal document
12 and you can't just come in and ask a court to
13 take judicial notice of foreign law.
14 THE COURT: Okay. It's been a long
15 week. I don't see enough there to
16 authenticate that in any way. Anything else
17 that's a little closer to what we like here
18 in the states?
19 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir, Church of
20 Scientology versus Wallerscheim which is
21 found at 42 Cal, App. 4628, 1996 opinion from
22 the California Second Appellate District.
23 MR. POPE: Same objection. It doesn't
24 involve Church of Scientology Flag Service
25 Organization of Florida. It's submitted for
. 1122
1 the same improper purpose.
2 MR. MERRETT: And last --
3 THE COURT: Now, let's -- slow down
4 here. Nice try. You're ruling is going to
5 be the same, right?
6 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir.
7 THE COURT: Not ruling, your argument.
8 MR. MERRETT: I'll rule if you like,
9 Your Honor. My argument would be the same.
10 THE COURT: Yeah, I know. Don't mess up
11 my case for me, judge. Okay. My rulings
12 will be the same and go ahead with the next
13 one.
14 MR. MERRETT: The last one is Allard
15 versus Church of Scientology. That is
16 another California case, 58 Cal. App. Third,
17 439, Second Appellate District, 1976.
18 Again, specifically referring to the
19 Fair Game policy as directed to suppressive
20 persons and enemies of Scientology.
21 MR. POPE: Objection on the basis that
22 is does not involve the petitioner in this
23 matter. It is a 24, 25 year old case and
24 it's submitted for the same relevant purpose
25 the court has heretofore noted.
. 1123
1 THE COURT: Okay, and Mr. Merrett is
2 making the same argument and same ruling.
3 Continued objection so noted.
4 What else?
5 MR. MERRETT: Call Arnaldo Lerma.
6 Thereupon:
7 ARNALDO LERMA
8 was called as a witness and having been duly sworn, was
9 examined and testified as follows:
10 DIRECT EXAMINATION
11 BY MR. MERRETT:
12 Q Mr. Lerma, where do you live?
13 A Arlington, Virginia.
14 Q How long have you lived there?
15 A Since 1978.
16 Q Have you ever been a member of Scientology?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q From when to when?
19 A From approximately 1966 to 1978.
20 Q And have you gone back into Scientology
21 since 1978?
22 A I briefly had some opportunity in 1992.
23 Q Since that have you had any approaches to or
24 from Scientology?
25 A In the summer of 1995 on August 12
. 1124
1 Ms. Kobrin came to my house with a Writ of Search and
2 Seizure after convincing a U.S. federal judge that I
3 was in possession of stolen property.
4 Q What was the property that you had?
5 A It was a copy of an unsealed public court
6 record from the Central District of California.
7 Q And was there any litigation as a result of
8 that?
9 A Considerable litigation.
10 Q Did you --
11 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor. This
12 is a matter that has absolutely nothing to do
13 with the issue before the court as to whether
14 Mr. Lerma has or has not violated the terms
15 of the injunction.
16 This event occurred long before this
17 injunction. It's part of the old these are
18 bad guys, they play hardball in court
19 defense, which you have already indicated
20 you're not that interested in hearing.
21 THE COURT: What do you say,
22 Mr. Merrett, sir?
23 MR. MERRETT: There was actually another
24 question pending which Mr. Pope has not had
25 the benefit of having heard again.
. 1125
1 THE COURT: Let's hear the question.
2 BY MR. MERRETT:
3 Q Have you since then been involved in
4 protesting against Scientology?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q And were you in Clearwater, Florida
7 picketing against Scientology or picketing about
8 Scientology over the first weekend of December, 2000?
9 A Yes, I was.
10 Q When did you arrive in town approximately?
11 A About five days before the picket.
12 Q And when you say before the picket, what do
13 you mean?
14 A Before we actually started picketing them.
15 Q Okay. Are you aware of the events on the
16 day, I guess it was January -- not January. Wait, I
17 guess it is. South of the Coachman Building, you,
18 Mr. Enerson, Mr. Minton and Ms. Gogolla; you recall
19 those events?
20 A I recall that day.
21 Q Okay. Were you there?
22 A Yes, I was.
23 Q Where you picketing?
24 A Yes, I was.
25 Q And were you at all times in an orange zone
. 1126
1 when you were south of the Coachman Building?
2 A That's correct.
3 Q Did you ever go off the sidewalk?
4 A No, sir.
5 Q Is this the area in which you were
6 picketing?
7 A That is correct.
8 Q Now, when you say picketing, what do you
9 mean?
10 A I mean carrying a sign and using a megaphone
11 to saying no OTs there.
12 Q What --
13 THE COURT: Say what?
14 MR. LERMA: No OTs there.
15 BY MR. MERRETT:
16 Q What does that mean?
17 A The Scientologists that are sitting in this
18 courtroom have a belief that if they do everything
19 they are told as directed by L. Rob Hubbard, at some
20 point they will gain amazing spiritual abilities?
21 Q Well, what kind of abilities?
22 A Well, perhaps you can kill with a thought.
23 Q Is that something that Hubbard promised?
24 A Well, Hubbard didn't --
25 MR. POPE: Objection. Your Honor, we're
. 1127
1 getting into all sorts of religious doctrine
2 here that doesn't have anything to do with an
3 issue before the court.
4 THE COURT: Well, the court kind of
5 drove it out there because to hear what
6 picketing, what they were chanting and as it
7 or wasn't it really picket or was it taunting
8 or what. I'm going to allow it to see what
9 this is all about. Go ahead.
10 BY MR. MERRETT:
11 Q What other powers other than killing with a
12 thought?
13 A They should be able to telepathically read
14 your mind, to leave you body and see what's happening.
15 Q Is that called exteriorization with full
16 perception?
17 A Yes, it is.
18 Q Did you pursue or get to the OT levels in
19 Scientology yourself?
20 A I got to the OT level 3, the story of Xenu
21 and the space cooties.
22 Q And did you develop those powers?
23 A No, not there, no.
24 Q Okay. Let me ask you, as far as when you
25 were picketing in this area, how long did you picket?
. 1128
1 A On which day?
2 Q The day which you have the remaining charge?
3 A Perhaps an hour.
4 Q Okay.
5 A On that one occasion.
6 Q During that hour did you remain on this
7 sidewalk down here?
8 A Yes, I did.
9 Q Did there come a time when you went around
10 the corner and headed north on Ft. Harrison?
11 A When we concluded picketing for the day.
12 Q Okay. And did you in fact cross the
13 driveway here?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Were you picketing when you crossed
16 the driveway?
17 A No.
18 Q What is the difference between what you were
19 doing on the sidewalk south of the Coachman Building
20 and what you were doing when you were walking north
21 along Ft. Harrison Avenue? I mean why is one
22 picketing and the other one is not?
23 A Well, the one at the south side of the
24 Coachman Building we were actively trying to get the
25 attention of the Scientologists walking back and forth
. 1129
1 and trying to get ideas across to them.
2 Q What were you doing as you crossed the
3 driveway?
4 A Trying to get back to LMT.
5 Q Did any of you stop in the driveway?
6 A No.
7 Q Did any of you either make a circuit within
8 the driveway or at any time make a circuit the
9 included the driveway in picketing?
10 A No, we did not.
11 Q Okay. Was it your intention to be
12 communicating anything to anybody as you crossed the
13 driveway?
14 A No, my intention was to cross the driveway.
15 Q And, if I understand correctly on either
16 side of driveway, these are, not withstanding my black
17 crayon, orange zones; is that right?
18 A Right.
19 Q And were you in transit from one orange zone
20 to another?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. Had you reviewed the injunction?
23 A Briefly, but I was relying on the judgment
24 of others at that point and keeping track of which
25 zone was where was fairly extensive.
. 1130
1 Q Okay. As far as you know, once the
2 injunction had been entered or since the injunction
3 was entered has there been any time that you have
4 engaged in protesting activities or First Amendment
5 activities in an area depicted on the diagrams
6 attached to the injunction which was not in an orange
7 zone?
8 A It was always in an orange zone.
9 Q Okay. Was it ever your intention to picket
10 on demonstrate any place where the judge told you not
11 to by issuing the injunction?
12 A No. Absolutely, no. It would seem like,
13 you know, you had more marked areas that we could
14 picket in. I know Scientology's penchant for
15 fabrication of felonies.
16 Q And for that reason were you careful to do
17 all of your First Amendment stuff inside the orange
18 zone?
19 A I was extraordinarily careful knowing the
20 character of my adversaries.
21 Q Did you ever, during any of this, come
22 within ten feet of a Scientologist that you know of?
23 A Not that I know of.
24 Q Okay. Do you recall Mr. Minton at one point
25 using the Threep to prevent a Scientologist from
. 1131
1 encroaching within ten feet of you all as you passed
2 that way?
3 A I think during that incident I was a little
4 bit around the corner.
5 Q Okay.
6 A All right.
7 Q Do you recall him making that use of the
8 Threep?
9 A I recall him extending the Threep with the
10 injunction on it.
11 MR. MERRETT: Okay. May I have a
12 second, Your Honor?
13 THE COURT: You may.
14 (Whereupon, a pause in the proceedings took
15 place.)
16 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, I would ask
17 the court to help me a bit here. I've
18 mislaid my notation on your JOA ruling.
19 I believe that's the only incident with
20 which he is charged that remains alive? I
21 think that's January 6.
22 MR. POPE: I believe he's correct on
23 that, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Yeah. That's the one where
25 Minton, Enerson, Lerma and Gogolla in
. 1132
1 transit.
2 BY MR. MERRETT:
3 Q Did that also include Ms. Gogolla? Did you
4 go where she went?
5 A Yes, we were all together.
6 Q And I think I asked you, did any of you make
7 a circuit through the driveway back and forth or stop
8 in the driveway?
9 A Absolutely not. We were avoiding anything
10 that could be construed as a violation of the
11 injunction.
12 Q Okay. Did you find -- let me ask you this.
13 Since then I assume you've had an opportunity to
14 actually sit down and read the injunction, correct?
15 A In actual fact, I have not read the entire
16 injunction.
17 Q Let me ask you this. Had you done all your
18 picketing in the company of people who have?
19 A Absolutely.
20 Q And so far as you know have you always been
21 in orange zones except where you had to transit
22 through somewhere else to get to an orange zone?
23 A Absolutely.
24 Q Okay. The January 7, the night after this
25 when Mr. Minton was engaged in the confrontation with
. 1133
1 the police, you were out there on Watterson Street,
2 right?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Were there any Scientologists getting on and
5 off the buses at that time?
6 A Not that I recall.
7 Q Okay. Did you see any that you recall other
8 than Mr. Avila and whoever the other security man may
9 have been?
10 A Perhaps two people by the door.
11 Q Okay. But that would have been on the west
12 side of Watterson?
13 A On the west side.
14 Q Did you ever see Mr. Minton get within ten
15 feet of any Scientologist?
16 A Except where -- I mean, Mr. Minton did not
17 approach any Scientologist within ten feet, but during
18 the videoing, during the actual incident I believe
19 that Antonio may have gotten that close on the other
20 side, but he was on the other side of me.
21 MR. MERRETT: Okay. I have nothing
22 further of this witness.
23 THE COURT: Mr. Howie.
24
25
. 1134
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. HOWIE:
3 Q Mr. Lerma, during this incident on
4 January 7, how close were you standing to Mr. Minton
5 at the time he was talking to police officers?
6 A 40 inches.
7 Q Where were you exactly when you saw that?
8 A I have standing on the curb facing
9 northwest.
10 Q Okay. When you say curb, are you talking
11 about the east side of Watterson on the sidewalk?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did you continue to stay on the east
14 sidewalk on Watterson during that entire incident?
15 A I believe I did.
16 Q Did you at any time see anyone being blocked
17 or any vehicle being blocked as a result of Mr. Minton
18 being on the street with the two police officers?
19 A No. I kept glancing over my left shoulder
20 because I was the first closest one I think toward the
21 street and if traffic had turned I would have been the
22 closest one to see it and I was close to the curb.
23 Q Now, when you say close to the street, are
24 you referring to Cleveland Street?
25 A No, I'm referring to the side street that
. 1135
1 the Trust is on.
2 Q All right.
3 A Close to the actual gutter.
4 Q Okay. For purposes of clarification, the
5 street that the Trust is on is called Watterson?
6 A Right, I was on Watterson, close to the curb
7 and perhaps six or eight feet from Cleveland where it
8 starts --
9 Q All right. Cleveland being on the south end
10 of Watterson?
11 A South end behind me.
12 Q And so it's your testimony that you were the
13 closest one to Cleveland and you kept glancing over
14 your shoulder to see if any cars were coming in?
15 A Right.
16 Q All right. During this entire confrontation
17 between Mr. Minton and the two police, did you see any
18 vehicles turn in to Watterson and Cleveland?
19 A No.
20 MR. HOWIE: Thank you. I don't have any
21 further questions.
22 THE COURT: Mr. Pope.
23 CROSS-EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. POPE:
25 Q Mr. Lerma, I believe you were served with a
. 1136
1 copy of the injunction on December 1, 2000; is that
2 correct?
3 A At some point in the beginning of my visit a
4 copy was thrown at my feet.
5 Q You did not pick it up?
6 A I did not pick it up.
7 Q You declined to accept it?
8 A I did not read it. I believe I picked it up
9 so it wouldn't be littering.
10 Q But you knew once you got to, when you came
11 town you heard from others I believe you indicated
12 that there was in fact an injunction outstanding
13 relative to picketing, was there not?
14 A Yes.
15 Q All right. And if I understood your
16 testimony, it is that from December 1 until today, as
17 you sit here today charged with criminal contempt, you
18 have still not read that injunction?
19 A We since it was first served and to this day
20 I don't believe that I am an associate or employee of
21 the Lisa McPherson Trust.
22 Q Okay. You're familiar with the brochure of
23 the Lisa McPherson Trust?
24 A Yes, I am.
25 Q And that you're listed as an advisory
. 1137
1 committee member?
2 A Yes.
3 Q All right, but notwithstanding that you are
4 not affiliated with the Lisa McPherson Trust?
5 A If they took my advice perhaps I would feel
6 that way.
7 Q Pardon me?
8 A If they took my advice or asked my advice at
9 any point in time I might feel that way, though my
10 name is there in my opinion, sir, to give the
11 organization credibility amongst its peers.
12 Q Did you allow your name to be listed here?
13 A Absolutely.
14 Q Okay. When you come to town do you go over
15 to the Lisa McPherson Trust Building?
16 A I've been picketing with many of the people
17 that are there for four years previous to this.
18 Q And you're picketing and you have been
19 picketing with them from December 1, 2000 to date,
20 correct?
21 A The previous, the last time that I picketed
22 was with Ms. Bezazian.
23 Q That was when?
24 A That would have been January, during that
25 week.
. 1138
1 Q Since December 1, 2000 you have in fact
2 picketed with various people who are associated with
3 the LMT, correct?
4 A When they chose to picket. That's fine.
5 Q So you participated with them, correct?
6 A One of the pickets -- I participated with
7 them? I like to think they were participating with
8 me.
9 Q You were participating together, weren't he?
10 A It's guaranteed by the Constitution.
11 Q And you were doing so with knowledge that
12 there was an injunction outstanding in place that
13 regulated the picketing activity?
14 A That is actually why, even though I did not
15 consider myself subject to the injunction, I chose to
16 try to abide by that at all times.
17 Q Okay. So you knew there was one and you
18 made an attempt to abide by it, correct?
19 A Yes, absolutely.
20 Q And the source of your knowledge, about the
21 terms of it was what other people told you?
22 A Yes.
23 Q All right. And not that you read it
24 directly yourself?
25 A Correct.
. 1139
1 Q All right. Now, you indicated some
2 knowledge of the orange zones. Did you ever look at
3 any of these maps?
4 A Yes. I glanced at the maps, but depended on
5 others who actually carried them with them and took
6 the time to look at this all, too.
7 Q Did you look at the Coachman map that has a
8 couple of arrows and the driveway and the notation
9 stay ten feet back from entranceways?
10 A You would have to cross the driveway.
11 Q I didn't ask you that. It says stay ten
12 feet back from entranceways, doesn't it?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Now, when you crossed this driveway
15 you had your picket sign up, didn't you?
16 A I don't recall.
17 Q Okay. Well, the video would be the best
18 evidence of that, wouldn't it?
19 A I believe it would.
20 Q Did you hear through scuttlebutt about this
21 that if you weren't picketing that all you had to do
22 was turn your picket sign upside down and you could
23 walk around anywhere you wanted to?
24 A Absolutely.
25 Q Okay. But, you don't remember whether you
. 1140
1 did that when you were crossing that driveway, did
2 you?
3 A As an actual fact, I don't remember that. I
4 do know that I picketed on many locations around the
5 downtown area and made every effort to do so.
6 Q And how many times since, say in the last
7 year have you come to Clearwater to picket the Church
8 of Scientology?
9 A Two times in the last year.
10 Q And in 2001 how many times?
11 A In the last -- wait. In the last year going
12 back --
13 Q Two times in the last year? I
14 misunderstood. From this point back one year is
15 twice?
16 A I believe so, yeah.
17 Q Okay. Who paid your way down here?
18 A I did.
19 Q Who paid your expenses while you were here?
20 A I did.
21 Q Have you received any funds whatsoever in
22 the way of expense reimbursement or cash payments to
23 you from Lisa McPherson Trust?
24 A No.
25 Q From Mr. Minton?
. 1141
1 A No, not as a reimbursement.
2 Q What have you received from him in any form
3 whatsoever?
4 A Since the start of litigation in RTC versus
5 Lerma perhaps $100,000.
6 Q Okay, so, Minton, Mr. Minton, has paid on
7 your behalf about $100,000 of litigation expenses?
8 A Mr. Minton hasn't paid anything on my
9 behalf.
10 Q What has he done, transferred the money to
11 you so that you can --
12 A No, he has gifted some funds from time to
13 time.
14 Q He has done what?
15 A Gifted some funds from time to time.
16 Q He has given you money?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And you think it's about $100,000?
19 A Well, there is a portion, a large portion of
20 that is a promissory note.
21 Q You signed a note back to him?
22 A Right.
23 Q How much money do you own him according to
24 that note?
25 A $60,000.
. 1142
1 Q Okay. And the other $40,000 of the 100, was
2 that a gift?
3 A Yes.
4 MR. POPE: Okay. That's all I have,
5 Your Honor?
6 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett.
7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. MERRETT:
9 Q Why did Mr. Minton give you the money?
10 A I had been in litigation with Scientology
11 for two years. They had spent, in their own filings
12 they claimed to have spent $1,700,000 litigating me.
13 Q All right. In attorney fees and costs?
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q And what was your financial situation as a
16 result of RTC's, that is Scientology's litigation
17 practice?
18 A I was essentially shellshocked.
19 Q Were you broke?
20 A Broke. I had lived on inventory and credit
21 cards and had offered to sell the computer I was
22 typing on the internet to Mr. Minton.
23 Q And Mr. Minton volunteered to bail you out
24 of the position Scientology put you in?
25 A He sent me an e-mail fax saying helps is on
. 1143
1 the way.
2 MR. MERRETT: Okay. I don't have
3 anything further of this witness.
4 THE COURT: Mr. Howie.
5 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I don't have any
6 questions. Thank you.
7 THE COURT: Thank you, sir.
8 MR. POPE: I have a follow-up question,
9 sir.
10 THE COURT: Follow-up.
11 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. POPE:
13 Q Were you employed by Factnet at the time of
14 this litigation?
15 A I was a director for Factnet.
16 Q Didn't you have some insurance coverage?
17 A Yes, we did.
18 MR. POPE: Okay. Thank you.
19 THE COURT: Any further questions?
20 MR. MERRETT: Nothing further.
21 MR. HOWIE: No, sir.
22 THE COURT: Sir, you may step down.
23 Call your next witness.
24 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, at this time I
25 would tender a submission to the party
. 1144
1 opponent the Hubbard Communications Office
2 policy letter of 18 October, 1967 and the
3 Hubbard Communications Offices police letter
4 of 21 October, 1968.
5 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: What are these? I know what
7 they are. Wait a minute. Take a look at it,
8 Mr. Pope.
9 (Whereupon, documents were reviewed.)
10 MR. POPE: Your Honor, in the first
11 place, there is no predicate laid that these
12 documents dating back to 1967 and 1968 are in
13 fact current policies of anybody. And if we
14 get into this, this is part of the old Fair
15 Game routine.
16 We get into this we might as well add
17 another week to the thing so we can hash
18 this thing and show how this thing worked
19 out over time.
20 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett, where are we
21 going with these?
22 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, to demonstrate
23 that as the earlier policy letter says
24 according to Scientology practice, enemies or
25 suppressive persons may be deprived of
. 1145
1 property or injured by any means by any
2 Scientologist without any discipline of the
3 Scientologist may be tricked, sued or lied to
4 or destroyed and the purported cancellation
5 of that order in 1968 only canceled the use
6 of the term but did not cancel any policy
7 regarding treatment or handling of
8 suppressive persons.
9 Additionally, I'm prepared to present
10 through original documentation that
11 Scientology doctrine and policy as a matter
12 of doctrine and policy was frozen in place
13 with the death of Mr. Hubbard since any
14 alteration to the technology these doctrines
15 are considered squirreling, which many
16 people saying Mr. Miscavige and his
17 companions have been busily engaged in, but
18 nonetheless, the fact is the all of
19 Scientology's doctrine are frozen in 1986
20 and the cancellation supposed this Fair Game
21 police was ineffective.
22 Additionally, you have case law there
23 entered subsequent to the 1968 purported
24 cancellation of Fair Game finding
25 Scientology was given a full and fair
. 1146
1 opportunity to demonstrate that it had in
2 fact been canceled in substance as well as
3 in name and was unable to do so. That's in
4 I believe the Allred (sic) case.
5 Essentially, Your Honor, what I'm
6 prepared to demonstrate is that this is
7 Scientology policy with respect to the
8 defendants in this case and as a companion
9 to that to demonstrate that each of the
10 persons who have testified who is a member
11 of Scientology is subject to Scientology
12 ethics and to punishment for failure to
13 color their testimony in accordance with
14 desired outcome of Scientology.
15 This is a matter the Scientology
16 doctrine demonstrated time and time again in
17 court after court. We're not plowing new
18 ground here.
19 As I say, the Allred court, Department
20 of State, case a federal court recognized
21 that Fair Game had been demonstrated and
22 proven to exist again subsequent to the
23 purported cancellation of the doctrine.
24 MR. POPE: Your Honor, this, again I
25 think you've ruled on this about three of
. 1147
1 four times already. Same kind of argument
2 that was made early in the case before
3 Mr. Merrett and I even were involved in it.
4 We're passed that. We're at the point
5 of the injunction and whether the conduct
6 violated it.
7 This isn't a one week extra trial. This
8 is a two week extra trial to get into the
9 stuff and it invokes the whole subject of
10 our motion in limine dealed with matters of
11 internal religious doctrine.
12 MR. MERRETT: I would only point out
13 that I am trilled to death to have on the
14 record that Fair Game is a religious doctrine
15 of Scientology.
16 THE COURT: All right. We'll stop with
17 that, and I'll hand these back to you and
18 we'll press on.
19 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, I would ask
20 that they be accepted by the court in the
21 form of a proffer in order to preserve the
22 record on appeal.
23 THE COURT: I'll do that.
24 MR. MERRETT: Thank you, sir.
25 THE COURT: I'll do that. Hold on.
. 1148
1 Bear with me now.
2 (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit Number Ten
3 was marked for identification.)
4 That's marked for ID and not in
5 evidence. Now, I made my statement on the
6 record that I've already been there and it's
7 already come out in prior proceedings before
8 this court and if at a later date for
9 appellate purposes if something comes up,
10 well, although there is nothing in the
11 record, let the record be real clear that
12 I'm saying I don't want to go plowing this
13 up. I've been there before.
14 If that becomes an issue, you can ask
15 the appellate court to give leave back to me
16 for the jurisdiction, I'll make a record.
17 MR. MERRETT: Yes. There are two
18 additional documents I wish to tender by
19 proffer.
20 THE COURT: Uh-huh.
21 MR. MERRETT: One is the
22 Scientologist's, a manual on dissemination of
23 material by L. Ron Hubbard dated 1955. The
24 quotation is "Never be interested in charges.
25 Do yourself much more charging and you will
. 1149
1 win and the public seeing that you've won
2 will then have a communication like the
3 effect of Scientologists win."
4 MR. POPE: Excuse me, he doesn't -- it
5 seems to me he doesn't need to recite out of
6 this it he wants to make a proffer. I object
7 to it coming into evidence.
8 Of course I don't object if he wants to
9 make a proffer without standing up here and
10 reciting it you.
11 MR. MERRETT: Well. I don't want to
12 taint the jury. I guess I see the objection
13 then.
14 THE COURT: Well, since the bench is the
15 jury, but so that we don't get into all this,
16 I'm telling you it's been argued before that
17 in dealing with the Church of Scientology, I
18 mean I've been in these cases for years.
19 A good offense is your best defense.
20 That's what you just got through telling me
21 and I'm aware of that.
22 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir.
23 THE COURT: Now, if that's not -- I mean
24 if that's not acceptable to both sides, then
25 let's put all this in and go for it.
. 1150
1 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I have no
2 objection to his making a proffer. I do
3 object to him reading it to the court in
4 connection to him making a proffer.
5 THE COURT: Okay. I'm just trying to
6 shortcut this a little bit.
7 MR. MERRETT: The other documents I
8 would proffer is the HCO policy letter of
9 15 August, 1960, regarding the manufacturer
10 of threat against enemy.
11 THE COURT: No, I make these proffers,
12 the last one was marked for ID Number Ten,
13 which is not in evidence.
14 This one, the Scientologist, a Manual on
15 the Dissemination of Material I'll mark
16 ID 11.
17 (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit Number 11
18 was marked for identification.)
19 All right. Now this one, Hubbard
20 Communication's Office HC0 Policy Letter of
21 15 August, 1960, Department of Government
22 Affairs, marked for identification number 12
23 ID, only.
24 (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit Number 12
25 was marked for identification.)
. 1151
1 Okay. Those are proffered. They are
2 not in evidence and so marked.
3 MR. MERRETT: Thank you, Your Honor.
4 Call Mark Bunker.
5 Thereupon:
6 MARK BUNKER
7 was called as a witness and having been duly sworn, was
8 examined and testified as follows:
9 DIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. MERRETT:
11 Q Would you state your name, sir?
12 A Mark Bunker, B-U-N-K-E-R.
13 Q Are you employed by the Lisa McPherson
14 Trust?
15 A Yes, I am.
16 Q How long have you worked there?
17 A Since the opening of the Trust in January of
18 2000.
19 Q What is it that you do for a living?
20 A I'm in charge of the multimedia side of the
21 LMT. I produce videos.
22 Q And are you the creator of the first portion
23 of the video that we saw regarding Ursula Caberta?
24 A Yes.
25 THE COURT: Say what?
. 1152
1 MR. MERRETT: The video regarding Ursula
2 Caberta.
3 THE COURT: Okay. I see.
4 MR. MERRETT: May I approach the
5 witness, Your Honor?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 BY MR. MERRETT:
8 Q Let me ask you to take a look at this video
9 cassette and ask you if you recognize it?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Is that a dubbed down of a cassette that
12 yourself taped?
13 A Yes, it is.
14 Q Where you present when Mr. Henson testified
15 yesterday about having had a police officer
16 essentially explain that he wanted everybody to picket
17 only in the orange zone?
18 A Yes, I was.
19 Q Were you present when that happened?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And did you videotape that officer's
22 explanation?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And is that a videotape of that
25 presentation?
. 1153
1 A It is.
2 Q Does that videotape fairly and accurately
3 represent the communication of that officer to
4 Mr. Henson that Mr. Henson referred to as the second
5 time the police talked to him?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And after that time did you ever see
8 Mr. Henson picketing outside an orange zone?
9 A No.
10 MR. MERRETT: What I would like for you
11 to do and, Your Honor, we ended up with only
12 one copy of this for some reason. I don't
13 know why. I think it was my error in leaving
14 this morning.
15 I would like for you on the label, not
16 on the box, but if you would initial and
17 date that?
18 MR. BUNKER: On the label, you said?
19 MR. MERRETT: On the label, yes. Thank
20 you. Your Honor, rather than publish it now,
21 I will just send it home with Mr. Pope to
22 watch over the weekend.
23 THE COURT: All right.
24 BY MR. MERRETT:
25 Q Mr. Bunker, do you also follow matters
. 1154
1 relating to the Lisa McPherson Trust over the
2 internet?
3 A Yes, I do.
4 Q And are you familiar with a web site called
5 Bigot Watch?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay.
8 THE COURT: Called what?
9 MR. MERRETT: Bigot Watch, Bigot dash
10 Watch.
11 THE COURT: Dot Com?
12 MR. MERRETT: I don't know.
13 MR. BUNKER: Dot Org.
14 THE COURT: Bigot-Watch,Org?
15 MR. BUNKER: Dot net, I'm sorry.
16 MR. MERRETT: Mr. Shaw suggest that
17 there is no dash in there. Do you know for
18 sure that there is a dash?
19 MR. BUNKER: No, there is no dash.
20 THE COURT: B-I-G-O-T-W-A-T-C-H?
21 MR. BUNKER: Yes.
22 THE COURT: No dash?
23 MR. BUNKER: No.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25
. 1155
1 BY MR. MERRETT:
2 Q Now, let me ask you, is that web site on
3 when documents from this case appeared as they were
4 issued at one point?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Do you recall being present in court on the
7 occasion when I brought to the court's attention the
8 fact that a document had appeared in Bigotwatch before
9 it been delivered to counsel?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And did you have occasion that night after
12 dark to look at Bigotwatch again?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And were those document still up there?
15 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor. He's
16 testify as to something he observed out of
17 court on the internet. What's the proper
18 predicate for that?
19 THE COURT: I don't know where we're
20 going here but let's find out. Hold on.
21 Just a minute. What's the significance of
22 viewing it after dark.
23 MR. MERRETT: Just later that day is
24 all, Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: I thought they didn't show
. 1156
1 up in a lighted room.
2 MR. MERRETT: I understand. That
3 sounded like it was something significant.
4 THE COURT: Okay. Okay. Let's see
5 where are we going with this now?
6 BY MR. MERRETT:
7 Q After we left court did you look at the web
8 site again?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And were those court documents there?
11 A They had been removed.
12 MR. MERRETT: Okay. I don't have
13 anything further, Your Honor.
14 MR. POPE: I object and move to strike
15 his testimony on the basis of the best
16 evidence rule, Your Honor.
17 He's testified the existence of
18 documents that were somewhere on the
19 internet.
20 The best evidence for that would be to
21 produce them. He says they're gone. I
22 presume he can't do it and move to strike
23 the testimony.
24 MR. MERRETT: Counsel is ever too clever
25 by having misapprehended the import of the
. 1157
1 best rule is where the contents of a document
2 is a matter in controversy in a proceeding
3 before th court that is to be proven by the
4 document itself rather than by reference to
5 extraneous sources.
6 The question here is not the content of
7 a document, it's the content of a web site.
8 Whether a particular item was displayed
9 on a web site before and after it was
10 brought to the court's attention that that
11 abuse was being made.
12 THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
13 Mr. Howie, you have any questions?
14 MR. HOWIE: I have no questions. I may
15 be calling Mr. Bunker later on.
16 THE COURT: You're not excused. Wait a
17 minute, we need to go to Mr. Pope. He may
18 have some questions regarding time. I don't
19 know. Mr. Pope?
20 CROSS-EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. POPE:
22 Q With regards to this videotape, Mr. Bunker?
23 A Yes.
24 Q That bears the date 12/1/2000?
25 A Yes.
. 1158
1 Q What time of day did you make this film?
2 A That was late afternoon, I would say
3 somewhere around four or five.
4 Q Is the date stamp on this film?
5 A No.
6 Q So that's your memory as to when you did it?
7 A Yes.
8 MR. POPE: All right. I don't have any
9 further questions.
10 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Merrett,
11 anything from you?
12 MR. MERRETT: No, Your Honor. No
13 further questions from the witness.
14 THE COURT: Mr. Howie?
15 MR. HOWIE: Nothing.
16 THE COURT: Sir, you may step down.
17 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I just want to
18 say that once I have an opportunity to look
19 at this --
20 THE COURT: You want him brought back.
21 MR. POPE: I'd like to be able to talk
22 to him perhaps.
23 THE COURT: Okay. Again, twice now you
24 can't get away from here, okay. Please,
25 they'll probably be calling you back and
. 1159
1 Mr. Merrett may want to try to put this in or
2 something so three people are going to want
3 to call you. Thank you, very much.
4 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, if we could
5 take a break for me to review --
6 THE COURT: Ten minutes.
7 (A short recess took place after which the
8 proceedings continued.)
9 THE COURT: Please be seated.
10 Mr. Merrett, sir, call you next witness.
11 MR. MERRETT: Yes, Your Honor, call
12 Heather Bennett.
13 THE COURT: Heather Bennett, please.
14 Thereupon:
15 HEATHER BENNETT
16 was called as a witness and having been duly sworn, was
17 examined and testified as follows:
18 DIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. MERRETT:
20 Q Ms. Bennett, you reside at 33 North
21 Ft. Harrison in Clearwater?
22 A I do.
23 Q And are you an employee of the Trust?
24 A No, I'm not.
25 Q Were you formerly an employee?
. 1160
1 A Yes, I was.
2 Q What is your present status with the Trust?
3 A I'm a contractor with the Lisa McPherson
4 Trust.
5 Q And why is it that you reside at that
6 address?
7 A I met with Jesse Prince, Stacy Brooks and
8 Tory Bezazian in September of last year after I guess
9 living in hiding from OSA for five years, because I
10 feared that they would Fair Game me.
11 Q Are you a former Scientologist?
12 A I am. I was born into the Church of
13 Scientology.
14 Q Are you --
15 THE COURT: You were what?
16 MS. BENNETT: I was born into a
17 Scientology family.
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 BY MR. MERRETT:
20 Q Are you presently a member?
21 A No, I am not.
22 Q As a result of your leaving have you been
23 disconnected from your family?
24 A Both of my parents, my siblings and even
25 my -- at one point even my children were disconnected
. 1161
1 from me.
2 Q Your children are not presently
3 disconnected?
4 A No, they are not.
5 Q Okay. And where were you living before you
6 moved to 33 North Ft. Harrison?
7 A I was living in Dunedin.
8 Q Okay. Is your apartment there in the LMT
9 building, is that part of your compensation package?
10 A It is part of my compensation package, yes.
11 Q And what is it that prompted you to move
12 from Dunedin?
13 A Well, I met with Jesse and Stacy and Tory, I
14 think it was on a Thursday, and by Saturday my
15 apartment had been broken into, and --
16 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor. First
17 of all so far everything that she has said
18 has no probative value on any issue in the
19 court. She's not testifying against anybody
20 who presently has a contempt order to show
21 cause --
22 MS. BENNETT: May I add --
23 MR. POPE: Excuse me. Furthermore, she
24 is setting up some implication that her
25 apartment was broken into. I guess she's
. 1162
1 going to point the finger over here and
2 there's nothing probative whatever about her
3 testimony.
4 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett, sir.
5 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, the issue
6 raised where it is that Ms. Bennett lives and
7 where it is that Ms. Bezazian stays when she
8 is in town and I thought it appropriate to
9 paint a completer picture of that matter.
10 MR. POPE: Your Honor, the sole purpose
11 of the testimony of about that Ms. Bezazian
12 staying there is to link her to LMT. That's
13 the sole function of it.
14 THE COURT: You may proceed with this
15 line of questioning and let's just, as far as
16 there has been a lot of testimony about these
17 people fearing the Church of Scientology or
18 being -- I don't know what. I've always
19 thought the term was excommunicated but I
20 don't know what --
21 MR. MERRETT: Disconnected or Fair Game.
22 THE COURT: Yeah. Going to that, but
23 let's stay away from trying to say or as far
24 as this breaking up.
25
. 1163
1 BY MR. MERRETT:
2 Q Yes, sir. So after these events you looked
3 for another place to live and moved to 33 North
4 Ft. Harrison.
5 A I did because I wanted to feel safe.
6 Q Okay. And do you expect to be moving again
7 in connection with your employment?
8 A I do. I will be helping the LMT to open a
9 Washington DC office.
10 Q When do you expect to do that?
11 A This weekend.
12 MR. MERRETT: I have nothing further.
13 THE COURT: Mr. Howie?
14 MR. HOWIE: I have no questions, Your
15 Honor.
16 THE COURT: Mr. Pope?
17 MR. POPE: I have a question.
18 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
19 CROSS-EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. POPE:
21 Q Ms. Bennett, now you have professed great
22 fear that you're going to be tormented by the
23 Scientologists, correct?
24 A Yes, sir.
25 Q And notwithstanding that fear you decided to
. 1164
1 move into a building that's 20 feet away from one of
2 their major facilities in Clearwater, correct?
3 A That's true, yes.
4 MR. POPE: Thank you. I have no further
5 questions.
6 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Merrett?
7 MR. MERRETT: Nothing further, Your
8 Honor.
9 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Bennett, you
10 may step down and have a seat back out there.
11 All right. Mr. Merrett, call your next
12 witness.
13 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, somebody is on
14 the way up from parking lot with the boxes
15 for the middle portion of my presentation, if
16 we could just wait a few minutes.
17 THE COURT: We can just wait.
18 MR. MERRETT: No, sir, I rest at this
19 point.
20 MR. POPE: In think that was a joke,
21 Your Honor.
22 THE COURT: Sounds to me like direct
23 criminal contempt.
24 MR. MERRETT: If that really were the
25 first third it would be.
. 1165
1 THE COURT: Let's do this. You're
2 saying that you announce rest.
3 MR. MERRETT: As to my clients, yes,
4 Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: All right. And, Mr. Howie,
6 at this time then we would move over you,
7 Mr. Howie. Mr. Howie --
8 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, anticipating
9 your question, here's how I would like to
10 proceed.
11 I intend to put on Mr. Bunker merely to
12 lay a predicate for a videotape what I will
13 then provide to Mr. Pope to review over the
14 weekend. It is my intention that my next
15 witness would be my client, Mr. Minton.
16 THE COURT: Monday morning.
17 MR. HOWIE: Which would be Monday
18 morning. Obviously, I see no point in trying
19 to --
20 THE COURT: Well, let the record reflect
21 that it's now Friday afternoon, on this the
22 16th day February, the year 2001. It's
23 approximately 1620 hours or 4:20 PM and I
24 have every reason to anticipate that there
25 will be some lengthy testimony with the next
. 1166
1 couple witnesses, so I do not want to press
2 into that today under any circumstances.
3 MR. POPE: I have discussed that with
4 him and am in full agreement with that, Your
5 Honor.
6 THE COURT: Okay. Very good. Now, he
7 does want to put Mr. Bunker on right now to
8 lay the predicate for that particular video
9 he wants to pass to Mr. Pope, right?
10 MR. HOWIE: Yes, sir.
11 THE COURT: Mr. Bunker, come forward
12 sir, and I'm going to keep you under the same
13 oath I put you under about half hour ago.
14 MR. MERRETT: Judge, may I ask one
15 question before we move on?
16 THE COURT: Yes.
17 MR. MERRETT: As far as Ms. Bezazian and
18 Mr. Lerma, and they don't necessarily need to
19 get up this minute, but may they be excused
20 from these proceedings pending obviously
21 recall of the court?
22 THE COURT: They can be excused pending
23 recall.
24 MR. MERRETT: I mean, if you need them
25 for something?
. 1167
1 THE COURT: But, the final -- when I
2 announce my decision on some of this, I mean
3 if I do find contempt, you know, I intend to
4 press on.
5 MR. MERRETT: I understand that.
6 THE COURT: As long as they're subject
7 to recall.
8 MR. MERRETT: They understand that, as
9 well, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 MR. MERRETT: Thank you.
12 THE COURT: Now. Let's do this.
13 Mr. Howie.
14 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, may it please
15 the court?
16 THE COURT: Yes, sir.
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. HOWIE:
19 Q Mr. Bunker, you were previously placed under
20 oath, but please state your full name for the record?
21 A Mark Bunker.
22 Q Mr. Bunker, you've previously testified that
23 you are an employee of the Lisa McPherson Trust and
24 that you act as their videographer; is that correct?
25 A Yes.
. 1168
1 Q And part of your duties I believe you
2 already testified to is that you produce videotapes
3 for or on behalf of the Lisa McPherson Trust?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Generally, what is the purpose of producing
6 these videotapes?
7 A Well, there are several purposes.
8 Educational is the primary purpose. We publish a lot
9 of video on the internet for folks around the world to
10 see the activities of the Lisa McPherson Trust and to
11 see the behavior of Scientology.
12 THE COURT: You post video on the
13 internet?
14 MR. BUNKER: Yes. People can go to our
15 web site and just by clicking on the video it
16 will start playing.
17 THE COURT: I'm sorry, what is the web
18 site?
19 MR. BUNKER: That would be
20 lisatrust.freewinds.cx and if you click on
21 Multimedia you'll go over to the LMT Media
22 which is the side of the site I'm in charge
23 of.
24 THE COURT: I see. Okay.
25
. 1169
1 BY MR. HOWIE:
2 Q Mr. Bunker, as part of your duties have you
3 produced any documentaries concerning the Lisa
4 McPherson Trust or Scientology?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What kind of documentaries have you
7 produced?
8 A Well, there have been many. I have done a
9 lot of interviews with former members. people like
10 Tory Bezazian, who I knew before she left Scientology.
11 One documentary that we were discussing here
12 in court is that what we call Scientology and the
13 Clearwater Police. It details what we feel for be a
14 troubling bias against the Lisa McPherson Trust on the
15 part of the Clearwater police force.
16 Q On the part of the entire Clearwater police
17 force or certain members?
18 A No, there are many police officers who work
19 off duty for Scientology and there have been many
20 instances with those officers who have had to respond
21 to situations that involved both Scientologists and
22 Trust members where they have shown clear bias against
23 us.
24 There are some officers who work regularly
25 for Scientology, like Officer Harbert, who has shown
. 1170
1 some bias.
2 Q Now, you are saying you produced one
3 documentary concerning this particular issue. I want
4 to ask you a little bit about how that documentary was
5 constructed. Was that done in one fell swoop or was
6 it an edited documentary?
7 A I took footage that I had been shooting over
8 the course of the past year, the year 2000, of these
9 various incidences and I constructed a narrative
10 around it into a 16 minute piece or 20 minute piece,
11 to tell the story of what we have seen happening.
12 Q When did you finished producing this
13 particular document?
14 A Would be in October of last year.
15 MR. HOWIE: If I may approach the
16 witness, Your Honor?
17 THE COURT: You may.
18 BY MR. HOWIE:
19 Q I'm going to present to you and
20 unfortunately, Your Honor, I have not had this marked
21 with an exhibit number. I'm approaching you and I'm
22 showing you a videotape and I'm going to ask you to
23 look at the label and tell me if you recognize that.
24 A Yes.
25 Q What is that, please?
. 1171
1 A This is the documentary Scientology and the
2 Clearwater Police Department.
3 Q Now, is that the original of the documentary
4 or a copy?
5 A This is a copy.
6 Q All right. And approximately how many
7 copies have you made of this?
8 A I'd say we've made and distributed about 30.
9 Q Were you, yourself, the editor of that tape?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Have you viewed that particular tape which
12 you are now looking at?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Does it fairly and accurately depict the
15 documentary from which you produced?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Concerning all segments on that documentary,
18 were you present when all segments of that documentary
19 were filmed?
20 A All except one brief snippet.
21 Q What brief snippet is that?
22 A There was a incident across the street from
23 the Lisa McPherson Trust in the parking structure
24 where Mike Krotz, another cameraman, had been punched
25 in the stomach by a Scientologist, Dennis Clark.
. 1172
1 Q You had an opportunity to review that
2 segment as well, correct?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Apart from that segment, were you present
5 and a witness to all of the other incidents on the
6 tape?
7 A Yes.
8 Q As to those segments, do they fairly and
9 accurately depict what you saw?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Now, concerning this particular videotape,
12 after it was produced you said it was approximately
13 October of last year, did you have occasion to view
14 this or rather see Mr. Minton view this tape in your
15 presence?
16 A Yes.
17 Q All right. Is it your understanding from
18 what you saw that he viewed it in its entirety?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay.
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay. Excuse me one moment. Do you know
23 when Mr. Minton viewed this?
24 A Almost immediately after it was finished.
25 Late October, I would believe.
. 1173
1 Q So, in fact, to your personal knowledge he
2 viewed it well in advance of January 7, 2001?
3 A Yes.
4 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I will be
5 providing this tape to Mr. Pope so I'm not
6 going to place it with the court, however I
7 ask that it be marked for purposes of
8 identification at this time?
9 THE COURT: All right. Hand it up here,
10 please.
11 (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit RM Number
12 One was marked for identification.)
13 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I just have one
14 or two more questions.
15 THE COURT: Proceed.
16 BY MR. HOWIE:
17 Q This has been marked as Defendant RM, for
18 Robert Minton, Exhibit Number One. Just so the record
19 is clear, can you recite the contents of the printed
20 label on that tape?
21 A The top of the label says Scientology and
22 the Clearwater Police, 21 minutes, LMT Media, 33 North
23 Ft. Harrison, Clearwater, Florida (727)467-9335 and
24 Fax (727)467-9445.
25 Q Do you know what the purpose was for putting
. 1174
1 those telephone and fax numbers on there?
2 A Yes, to identify that this is a product of
3 the Lisa McPherson Trust and anyone who had questions
4 or concerns could contact us.
5 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, if the record
6 will reflect, I m providing Defendant Robert
7 Minton's Number One for identification to
8 Mr. Pope for review over the weekend as
9 directed by the court.
10 THE COURT: Let the record so reflect.
11 MR. HOWIE: I have no further questions.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Pope.
13 MR. POPE: I acknowledge receipt of it
14 but I did want to ask the witness a couple
15 questions, reserving the right to ask him a
16 few after I've seen it.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Absolutely, and you
18 may inquire at this time. Mr. Merrett, I
19 didn't give you a chance, but I'll get back
20 to you.
21 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir.
22 CROSS-EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. POPE:
24 Q Mr. Bunker, I just want to be sure I
25 understand the nature this film. It's a documentary
. 1175
1 about a claim that the police are biased against LMT;
2 is that correct?
3 A Well, it shows certain incidents as where
4 the police have responded in a way which we believe
5 shows a bias.
6 Q And the purpose of putting this film
7 together was to put together a film clip that
8 demonstrated police bias against LMT and its
9 affiliates; is that correct?
10 A It was put together as a matter of
11 protection as we felt we weren't safe.
12 Q The thing you were protecting is your claim
13 of police bias, correct?
14 A No, we weren't protecting our claim. We
15 were worried about the consequences of what was
16 happening.
17 Q And how is it that this film protected you?
18 A I believe that my camera is one of our major
19 pieces of protection showing exactly what has been
20 happening while we're here in Clearwater.
21 Q And these happenings that are shown in your
22 mind establish police bias against LMT; is that
23 correct?
24 A I think you'll have a chance to see the tape
25 and --
. 1176
1 Q Is that what you contend, sir? Is that why
2 you prepared this tape to show police bias against
3 LMT?
4 A We showed it to -- we put it together to
5 show how Scientology and its membership corrupt the
6 system.
7 Q Corrupt the police; is that the system?
8 A Perhaps corrupt some individual police.
9 Q Okay. So let's get back to the original
10 question from which I have not gotten a straight
11 answer from you.
12 MR. MERRETT: I'll object.
13 Argumentative.
14 BY MR. POPE:
15 Q Did you, did you --
16 MR. MERRETT: I wonder if Mr. Pope would
17 be so good as to allow the court to rule on
18 the objection just for a change of pace?
19 THE COURT: Well, gentlemen, can we hold
20 on here for about ten more minutes until I
21 can get you out of the courthouse and off my
22 watch.
23 Look, let's do this please. Give him a
24 change to answer. I hear the answer and
25 Mr. Bunker, if you would, try to be as
. 1177
1 direct and straightforward in answering the
2 questions and let's go on. Thank you very
3 much.
4 BY MR. POPE:
5 Q Did you produce this film to establish your
6 belief, to document your belief that the police in
7 Clearwater are biased against LMT?
8 A We wanted to show the instances where we
9 felt that, yes, they were biased against us.
10 Q Okay. Good. And it is narrated by you,
11 correct?
12 A Yes.
13 Q So what we have is snippets of incidents
14 that you have videotaped with a voice override
15 narrating it and it's you?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Is there any other voice on there besides
18 yours?
19 A Yes, I interviewed former Lieutenant Ray
20 Emmons who was in charge of investigating Scientology
21 for 20-some years here, I believe, and former Mayor
22 Gabe Cazarez who was Fair Gamed by Scientology.
23 Q Okay. Any other voices on there besides
24 Emmons and Cazarez?
25 A Stacy Brooks also was interviewed.
. 1178
1 Q Okay. Who else is on it?
2 A Mike Krotz who was assaulted by Dennis
3 Clark, the Scientologist.
4 Q And who else is on it?
5 A Speaking on camera I think those are all of
6 the only people who are speaking.
7 Q Are there video clips of police officers
8 engaging in your view in biased behavior?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay. How many of those do you have on
11 there?
12 A Let's see. There was the hammer incident.
13 The officer there who responded when a man attacked my
14 camera with a hammer. The officer on the scene was
15 Lieutenant Kelly who refused to look at the videotape
16 of the hammer incident and threatened to arrest me for
17 not telling the hammer assailant that I was recording
18 audio.
19 Q Now, this hammer assailant, was this
20 somebody you contend was a member of the Church of
21 Scientology?
22 A He -- his name appeared in Scientology
23 publications as having taken the drug rundown and
24 later in police documents the Scientologist had
25 offered to represent him in court. I have no direct
. 1179
1 evidence that he, himself, is a Scientologist since
2 gave the police a phony name.
3 Q Okay, so you don't know whether the man is a
4 Scientologist or not?
5 A In that instance I know he was working for a
6 Scientologist. He worked for a Scientology firm at
7 the time.
8 Q And back to my question, you don't know
9 whether he is a Scientologist, do you, sir?
10 A No.
11 Q All right. Thank you. Have you provided
12 the Clearwater Police Department with a copy of this
13 documentary?
14 A Yes.
15 Q To whom did you provide it?
16 A Well, it's my understanding that the Police
17 Chief, Sid Kline, has shown the tape to the police
18 force.
19 Q And have you discussed the matter with any
20 member of the police department after providing it?
21 A Yes, I have discussed with many police
22 officers on the beat, including Officer Connelly and
23 the bike patrol. The bike patrol was very adamant
24 that they don't work for Scientology and they don't
25 feel that --
. 1180
1 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor. He's
2 volunteering all sorts of information about
3 the bike patrol. That's hearsay. Move to
4 strike it.
5 THE COURT: Sustained, as far as hearsay
6 statements.
7 MR. BUNKER: I've talked to also Wayne
8 Schulor, the police spokesperson, and asked
9 him to do an on camera interview to provide
10 the opposing side if he wishes to do so.
11 BY MR. POPE:
12 Q Has he taken you up on that?
13 A No at this point.
14 Q And who paid for the making of this film?
15 A Well, it was an LMT project. There is no
16 specific budget.
17 Q LMT footed the bill on it? You're a
18 salaried employed of LMT, correct?
19 A Right.
20 MR. POPE: That's all I have.
21 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett?
22 MR. MERRETT: No questions, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Mr. Howie?
24 MR. HOWIE: No further questions.
25 THE COURT: Sir, you may step down but
. 1181
1 subject to you recall after all of that, yes,
2 sir.
3 All right. Now, ladies and gentlemen,
4 within the scope of the statements that were
5 made when we first came in after this most
6 recent break, I think we're at that time
7 where we can conclude this weeks activities
8 and pick it up on Monday morning at nine
9 o'clock right back here and we'll secure the
10 courtroom over the weekend and everybody
11 have a good weekend. Thank you all very
12 much.
13 (Thereupon, the trial was adjourned to
14 reconvene at 9:00 AM on February 19, 2001)
15 End of Volume IX
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