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Transcript of Part Four

Maria Pia: Life went on and on. I was auditing. Then, OT-8 came out and the name of OT-8 is "Truth Revealed." I say, "Here we are. I want to do OT-8!" So I bought the pack of OT-8 on the ship. Then, my daughter felt sick and I was called from Italy. They said, "She will never recover. She will die. Come back."

Stacy: She was OT-7, though!

Maria Pia: Yeah. Yeah. Apparently, the didn't have any BT of cluster left. She had something else. So, I wrote a CSW and said, "I need to go." And the Captain, Debbie Cook, said "Okay. Go." That was one and a half years later.

Stacy. This was in 90…

Maria Pia: That was the 24th of September, 1990. I left for Italy. I went to Milano. My daughter died the 18th of November, same year. So, after a couple of months. During that period, they tried 20 times to get me back. I said, "No way! It's my only daughter. I am her mother! And no way I come back to Flag! Leave me alone!"

Stacy: How did she die, Maria?

Maria Pia: Aids. She died on the 18th of November. I had a bunch of Scientology coming because she was a mission holder so…

Stacy: Your daughter was?

Maria Pia: Yes. So a lot of…bunch of people coming to Milano. She died in Milano because she was in a hospital in Pavia. She died in Pavia, Italy, near Milano. We brought her to our cemetery in Tuscany. I went home to my mother. I will always remember my mother's face. And there was the kid. She had a daughter, an 11 year old.

Stacy: Your daughter did?

Maria Pia: My granddaughter… she was 11. You know, one thing is to lose your mother when you are two. But when you are 11, and you are very close to your mother…

Stacy: Yeah.

Maria Pia: And you know, my granddaughter. She hates Scientology. She doesn't want to hear anybody to speak about Scientology. I tried to put her in auditing, like that. She said, "That's bullshit!" She told me, "Leave me alone!"

Stacy: Because she saw what happened to her mother.

Maria Pia: Yes. So I stayed at home for twelve days. Then they called me back from… They said, "Oh, you come back or you go to…" I say, "But I have my mother. I have the kid." "You come back or you get in big trouble." So, I came back to Flag. And the Captain said, "Okay, Maria Pia. We want you to go to do OT-8. You have to discharge this pain." "You are paid. You go on the ship to do OT-8." I bought the flight and I went to the Bahamas on the Freewinds. I arrived and the first thing they say, "You have to do a sec check." I went nuts! I say, "So why? My daughter has died! I didn't kill her! Where is the crime I committed?"

Stacy: This is how they take care of you after your daughter has died?

Maria Pia: At the end, so I start to discharge it…being in another place not being at home. It was easier to…

Stacy: You start to feel a little bit of relief?

Maria Pia: Feel a little bit better. Less grief, less…So, I arrived the day that I went in the OT-8 course room.

Stacy: And this is truth revealed now.

Maria Pia: This is truth revealed. It revealed to me that I had to leave Scientology.

Stacy: Why? What happened?

Maria Pia: Why???!! First I find the first out-tech. There's a list called CS 53.

Stacy: A correction list?

Maria Pia: A correction list that an auditor does until the old list, the meter is FN'ing. And LRH says, "You cannot do it in solo." The first thing I found was a CS 53 to FN'ing list is solo. I swear. Mm-hmm.

Stacy: No! You're kidding.

Maria Pia: I said, "This is ridiculous!" "That's only for OT-8," the supervisor told me.

Stacy: So, it's out-tech until you get to OT-8 and then it's okay.

Maria Pia: Yeah. That's okay. So, I did the first pack very fast in one day because I was auditing every day those actions so I can do another. I can do them myself. That's not the problem.

Stacy: So, that's not any truth revealed yet.

Maria Pia: No. Then the truth revealed arrived! I opened the pack of the truth revealed. I tell you, Stacy, I was like that (indicating), I was like a stone. Then, I said, "Maybe they make a fault and gave me the wrong pack." So, I asked the supervisor, "Is that pack OT-8 theta?" "Oh, yes! That's the truth revealed." I said, "That's bullshit."

Stacy: What does it say?

Maria Pia: BT!

Stacy: No! (laughs)

Maria Pia: More people on the chair with you. And that's crazy! The data is you have to go back, back, back on the track to find all the overts of the track until you are like the shell, you know?

Stacy: The clam!

Maria Pia: The clam! The history of man. You go back. So you arrive to the clam, pluck, pluck.

Stacy: You do History of Man on OT-8?

Maria Pia: Yeah, you have to read it, the History of Man.

Stacy: No! (laughs)

Maria Pia: Yes. When you find this overt, you locate the BT and you ask him, "Is it yours?" "Is it mine?" And you will get the read. And so I said, "Is this the truth revealed?"

Stacy: Oh, dear! (laughs)

Maria Pia: So, to stay here like a stupid in front of a meter, paying a cabin what it costs on the Freewinds!

Stacy: How much does it cost?

Maria Pia: Oh, $8,000 is the course OT-8 course. So, you sit down there and you start to ask, "Is it yours? Is it mine? Is it of somebody else?" Until you get no more read. Something happened during OT-8, one day I was auditing and I felt like my daughter was there. "Oh," I say, _______________ is you?" And the meter started to…it was an emotion. My miss-emotion was reading! Start with _____. Floating TA.

Stacy: And a floating TA is really, really good.

Maria Pia: And the needle goes up and down and you can't stop it. I said, "I finished OT-8." I wrote to the Senior CS, "My OT-8 is done." I said, "I don't want this garbage anymore." I was thinking I would go down back to Flag. I pack my luggage and go to Italy and route out. I said, "That's it. It's finished."

Stacy: You're done with Scientology.

Maria Pia: Yeah, but it's no so easy.

Stacy: Yeah.

Maria Pia: So, the night-this is nice-the night I attested to OT-8, I went offshore with some friends. And we went to see the casino in Nassau in the Bahamas.

Stacy: In Nassau?

Maria Pia: Guess what! Guess who were there!

Stacy: Who?

Maria Pia: David Miscaviage, Ray Mitoff and the ED Int. _______________. They were gambling like crazy!

Stacy: You're kidding!

Maria Pia: No. I'm not kidding.

Stacy: But that's not…

Maria Pia: With our money!

Stacy: That's not allowed in Scientology, is it?

Maria Pia: They are the management. I know they do what they want. They were gambling. And that's nice because they saw me.
Stacy: They saw you there?

Maria Pia: Uh-huh. The day after I was called by the Senior CS Margaret __________. She told me, "Okay. Please don't tell. They were just once in a while, you know, just to…they wanted to see the casino." I said, "No. I wanted to see the casino." They were sitting at the tables gambling!" So, I came back to Flag. I don't know. I still had my daughter's death and I don't know. I didn't feel like starting a fight at that moment. I went back on the chair auditing and that's it.

Stacy: But how did you feel about Scientology by that time?

Maria Pia: Oh, bad. Bad. Just that moment I felt very bad. I was looking for a way to get out. And that way arrived nine months later when I got a phone call that my mother was hospitalized and she was dying. That was 11 months after my daughter's death. So, they say, "Yes, but your mother is old. She can drop the _________" I say, "That's it. I'm the only daughter." I say, "You approve my CSW, I go. You don't approve my CSW, I go anyway." They didn't approve my CSW.

Stacy: They wouldn't let you go?

Maria Pia: I took my suitcases and went to Italy.

Stacy: You left anyway?

Maria Pia: Yeah, I left anyway. So, let's arrive to my mother's death, that was December 11, 1991. The 21st of December, 1991, my mother was out. Three days after, Debbie Cook, the Captain of Flag, called me and said, "You know, Maria, there's a new project. Class 8 for it." I said, "Listen, my mother is still not in the grave. Wait a moment." Eight, nine days after my mother's death, I arrive in my…I had a huge villa where my parents were living in Tuscany near Grosceto. At 2:00 in the afternoon, _____________ was the Flag In Charge for Italy, he was a Sea Org member. The other one was a public, Michael ___________, it was a very good friend of my daughter. More or less same age, was an FSM for Flag.

Stacy: Now an FSM is a field staff member. That's a person who takes ten percent commission from everybody that they are able to get into a new service. Is that right?

Maria Pia: Yeah, but that's not legal.

Stacy: No. But that's what it is, isn't it?

Maria Pia: That's what it is. They came and they start to talk to me. They say, "You know, you are a full Class 9 because you are an auditor." I say, "No. Wait a moment. I did also Class 8 and I'm on Class 10. I'm more than a full Class 9." "Yeah, but you know, that's wonderful. You know that's a project!" They know that I love Italy. I love my country. And they know that every time I was telling them, "We need people trained in Flag."

Stacy: So, you felt like there ought to be more people that had been trained at Flag in Italy.

Maria Pia: Yeah, from Italy. They start to say, "You know, that's a huge project to make Class 8 auditor and 200 Italian." I say, "Where do you find 200 auditors in Italy?"

Stacy: The project was to make 200 Italian Class 8 auditors?

Maria Pia: Class 8 auditors and CS's from Italy and Switzerland but Italian Switzerland! That corner of Switzerland…that's Italy. "The project would cost 2 million dollars." I say, "Oh. Good. Who will pay for it?" I say, "I will never do it. Don't ask me for 2 million dollars!" I say, "You are crazy or what?" "No, but you can start to do the first donation!" Meanwhile, they were there, Debbie Cook called from five to six times, talking to them, speaking to __________ and to me. "Yeah, Maria, you know, you will help your country. Your country had the raid and they were shut off. So, you can help your country." I said, "Thank you." I was so pissed off! I said, "Listen, Guys…" "But you inherited now." I said, "No. Wait a moment! Before I inherit, I have pay all the inheritance taxes. And I don't know how much it is." "Well, you start the first donation." So, I gave them $35,000, $30,000 - I don't remember. I think it was $35,000. I check out - I want to stay in peace. I was decided not to come back to Flag.

Stacy: Had you told anybody?

Maria Pia: No! I wouldn't tell anybody. I was telling them, "That's all the inheritance…" you know, "…it takes time It takes time."

Stacy: You were stalling?

Maria Pia: I was taking time-taking time. In the meantime, they were sending people to me to be audited in my house.

Stacy: They were?

Maria Pia: Staff members. So, my house started to become, you know, it was like a train station. People entering and people going out.

Stacy: This was in Tuscany?

Maria Pia: Yeah. My parents' house. One morning, my maid came and said, "Oh, Mrs. Gardini, we have a problem." I said, "What problem?" "We have two people sleeping in the car in the garden." I say, "What is this?" There were two Sea Org members sleeping in the car. I said, "What the hell are you doing?" "You know, because we didn't want to disturb you…" I say, "At what time did you arrive?" "At 2:00 in the night." "Sure, you disturb at 2:00 in the night!" So, I gave them some money just to send them away, you know. A little money - they are happy. They have a check in their hands.

Stacy: They were trying to get you to pay for this Class 8 auditor project?

Maria Pia: Yeah. For that Italian Class 8 auditor project. That is terrible!

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